Nirbhaya documentary: Why Javed Akhtar, Anu Aga's views differ completely

[anuragingle]

This very much. Going to ToI home page is like visiting a pron site at times. Even at this moment you can see video news on gang rape and Sunny Leone video clip in same tab. It is these same channels those shout the most on prime TV against rape cases. If you open some pages in foreign country, they are blocked.

And this is exactly why people here are against media these days. I don't think it is because BBC /foreign media, etc. But it is about media in general. Because media in India is generally sold of to political parties, they rarely produce much content worth watching. Ok, they made people addicted to substandard shit like soaps, big boss, etc...

Plus the type of quick justice which some people want:

http://www.firstpost.com/india/dima...s-led-the-lynch-mob-says-top-cop-2140813.html

"According to a report in The India Express, the police said they could not use force to save the rapist as the lynch mob was led by college and school-going girls. "How could I use maximum force when there were hundreds of girls in school and college uniforms in the front of a massive mob? It was difficult. There would have been several casualties," Dimapur SP Meren Jamir"

I don't know what to say. One one side is slow justice by courts, other side is typical idiot Indians ready for lynch mobs. Barbaric times.

The Indian news channels are the most pathetic news channels in the world. If any news channel had the guts they should have aired the Nirbhaya documentary and challenged the goverment ban

Another thing to note that India has a nil documentary culture. While so called 'western' people are making hard hitting documentaries like Inside Job, The Corporation, Food Inc etc we hardly have any documentaries made by indians on current issues.

We dont even have something like the John Oliver Show in India, on one of his shows John Oliver called the British Prime Minister an arsehole, imagine what the reaction of the Modi fanboys would be if someone called Modi an arsehole on national television lol


Regarding the lynching incident, if the courts are going to take 2-3 years to convict rape cases or any other cases for that matter we are going to see a lot more of these lynchings taking place

 

[drkrack]

Just Finished watching the documentary, It is a must watch for everyone, it doesn't say that it all Indian men are Rapists, Just falls short of saying, but revolves around a similar theme. It is how a documentary or a movie should be, should revolve around the theme but never Spell it out. there is nothing wrong in airing this, as we require many hard-hitting documentaries like these to change the mindsets.
Actually Govt was right in Banning it, had it not been banned ; not many people would have watched it. Now everyone will watch it.

But if they acknowledge it, it will affect our traveling industry, Incredible India Campaign, Investments etc. Govt had to show some resistance , that we don't agree with the facts represented in the documentary and banning is a just formality. Everyone knows how to get it on Internet. Acknowledging and honoring the creator of the Documentary is something like US giving civilian award to Snowden & Julian Assange. No Govt in the world is mature enough for that.

Please Don't be under this delusion either - see the Facts (My Educated friends, who ignore international Statistics)
Are All Indian men are of Rapist mentality ? Certainly NO
Are Majority of Indian men ? No
Is India a Worst country in the world for Women ?? No
We are bad and we need to improve a lot.

I have said before and again
"I do agree that, we're offenders as far as gender bias is considered, we're corrupt, communal, racist & illogical society. But we are not the worst, and the statistics just say that. Yes, I agree that the situation can be improved a lot & a lot needs to be done. "

 

[asingh]

After viewing that documentary (many here say Indians misogynist so so), should we start treating all men in TE /in this discussion as prospective rapists ? Should all of them be considered hardcore misogynists ? Don't TEians here treat women around (mother, sister, daughter, friends, strangers) them with due respect ?

To be honest when society is studied it is a generic attitude which is observed and reported. That documentary should be seen as an anthropological film, rather than a crime reporting. It is trying to delve deep into the Indian psyche and understand why -post rape- augmentations occur. Why the blame culture (women are tempting us), shame and guilt acknowledgment, shunning of an atrocity, men have higher rights/status, hyper patriarchy are all normalcy here. Rape is actually the fruit of all these thorns. There is not much beyond that, at least for a woman. Are we men (here on TE) not also part of this pool. ? Have not we tacked on our "last" name to our wives first name, to change her identity (though this practice is diminishing), are not girls married off first (irrespective of age), do not managers blatantly ask "any plans for family or marriage", during interviews; the list goes on and on....! I am not being a femi-nazi here, but just stating what is happening. If any of us have lived any moment or iota of a second where dues to us being a "male" we were privileged, then it is save to call us as misogynists. Or due to the "past" sad male history (example: metro harassment); women have to be compartmentalized, it is almost equivalent to rape. That is what I feel. I know it is strong, but it makes sense.

There are places in US, forget women; where men too don't feel safe for going out after 7pm, so we need to be more objective. Off late it's become a fashion to criticize our culture and religious beliefs without a valid reason. I do agree that, we're offenders as far as gender bias is considered, we're corrupt, communal, racist & illogical society. But we are not the worst, and the statistics just say that. Yes, I agree that the situation can be improved a lot & a lot needs to be done.

That comparison holds no truth. Even my gated society, women walk around freely anytime of the day/night. Majority of the public areas in India, a women is not safe after the sun sets. That is the reality. USA is way beyond this.

A lady dentist was not allowed to undergo Abortion in UK because their religious beliefs doesn't allow legal abortions. She succumbed to the consequences of delaying an abortion. Did they make a documentary on that and show internationally? Forget it, did they allow our investigation agencies or media to investigate??

What stopped us from making a documentary on that...? Or why have not any of our agencies made one on the Diplomatic Fiasco, that happened some time back.

So every country has it's own right to safeguard it's image both nationally and internationally.

It is suppressing an evil, which is good as propagating it. Women are the fertility of life for all mankind. That is about it.

 

[drkrack]

To be honest when society is studied it is a generic attitude which is observed and reported. That documentary should be seen as an anthropological film, rather than a crime reporting. It is trying to delve deep into the Indian psyche and understand why -post rape- augmentations occur. Why the blame culture (women are tempting us), shame and guilt acknowledgment, shunning of an atrocity, men have higher rights/status, hyper patriarchy are all normalcy here. Rape is actually the fruit of all these thorns. There is not much beyond that, at least for a woman. Are we men (here on TE) not also part of this pool. ? Have not we tacked on our "last" name to our wives first name, to change her identity (though this practice is diminishing), are not girls married off first (irrespective of age), do not managers blatantly ask "any plans for family or marriage", during interviews; the list goes on and on....! I am not being a femi-nazi here, but just stating what is happening. If any of us have lived any moment or iota of a second where dues to us being a "male" we were privileged, then it is save to call us as misogynists. Or due to the "past" sad male history (example: metro harassment); women have to be compartmentalized, it is almost equivalent to rape. That is what I feel. I know it is strong, but it makes sense.


That comparison holds no truth. Even my gated society, women walk around freely anytime of the day/night. Majority of the public areas in India, a women is not safe after the sun sets. That is the reality. USA is way beyond this.


What stopped us from making a documentary on that...? Or why have not any of our agencies made one on the Diplomatic Fiasco, that happened some time back.


It is suppressing an evil, which is good as propagating it. Women are the fertility of life for all mankind. That is about it.

The Lady dentist issue, India's request for a enquiry was turned down, our media was busy with sunny as usual, our activists and government kept quite to preserve their secular credentials, As it wasn't a problem with Indian culture. Finally they conducted a controversial inquiry, where many of the inquiry team comprised of hospital administration and health ministry. Punished the softest targets like doctors and covered it up. But finally they amended the law year later of her death.

I was very happy to see women moving freely during odd hours recently in Surat , and my city Hyderabad is pretty good on women safety . There are many unsafe pockets in US known , one of my schoolmate working in HP mentioning.

I do agree on your gender bias in software industry, but it's a universal phenomenon, in other industries too. You need many more hard hitting revolution to change the mindset.

 

[avi]

Actually Govt was right in Banning it, had it not been banned ; not many people would have watched it. Now everyone will watch it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

 

[blr_p]

So You mean, you need a so called documentary by someone in the 3rd world to understand the core issues we have in india? What is the point here?

Violence against women happens around the world.

 

[TEUser2K1]

asingh, "I am not being a femi-nazi here" - ironically, you have to declare it, don't you ? hmm...

...Have not we tacked on our "last" name to our wives first name, to change her identity (though this practice is diminishing),
If you consider this as an issue, this is not India specific one, any civilized world developed like that only. If you want reasons now, you probably can trace it to 'Y' Chromosome. Plus there are communities in India where matriarchy was practiced (to a limited extent even alive today), so if required, women in other communities could have adopted that. Onus is also on women to stand up for their values, not depending on men for everything in their life.

...are not girls married off first (irrespective of age)...,
Yesteryears, both boys and girls were married young, not just in India, but in many other countries.
Women married earlier, because best years for child bearing is 18-30. Don't blame it on men or society.

...do not managers blatantly ask "any plans for family or marriage", during interviews...;
Corporations are there to make money. Plus, if not taken due care, people irrespective of gender lines will try to exploit the facilities given to them at the expense of others.

...If any of us have lived any moment or iota of a second where dues to us being a "male" we were privileged, then it is save to call us as misogynists...
These days you can invent lot of blame on men even just for living. Such people are a burden on the society and create problem for themselves and women as a whole.


The likes of you want to give women everything in a plate for free without any hardships /working for it. Men during evolution, fought for what they need and for the world forward to this stage. Yes, they are privileged to fight and die wars, experimenting innovations. You are forgetting that India is a third world country which is equally ****ed for both genders. Don't bring your SJW shit into everything, now I understood why Modi Govt. wanted to ban this documentary.

Hope you will not end up in the situation of Vivek Wadhwa

 

[blr_p]

Coming back to the Nirbhaya case the Supreme Court stayed the execution of sentences of the accused on March 15 2014, its close to 1 year now and the Supreme Court has still not handed down any judgement.

Does it take 1 year for the Supreme Court to decide if they are guilty or not?

If this is the case with the Supreme Court you can imagine what the situation is with the lower courts

There is no question about guilt. That has already been established. The question is about the punishment.

personally i am against the death penalty. Lock them up for ten or longer than let them go.

 

[blr_p]

Plus the type of quick justice which some people want:

http://www.firstpost.com/india/dima...s-led-the-lynch-mob-says-top-cop-2140813.html

"According to a report in The India Express, the police said they could not use force to save the rapist as the lynch mob was led by college and school-going girls. "How could I use maximum force when there were hundreds of girls in school and college uniforms in the front of a massive mob? It was difficult. There would have been several casualties," Dimapur SP Meren Jamir"

I don't know what to say. One one side is slow justice by courts, other side is typical idiot Indians ready for lynch mobs. Barbaric times.

This was a failure of the govt to protect its territory. What you said about mob justice is the most credible reason i've heard about preventing broadcast of this film. The producer says the protests motivated her to make the film. The peaceful ones surely. But it did get violent and the mob wanted to attack Sheila after a point when she came out to meet them.

It is quick justice like you said and constitutes a law & order problem that the govt would seek to prevent. Any govt. Forget the home minsters words about defamation etc. The incident in dirampur is EXACTLY what the govt seeks to avoid on a national scale. Forget trials, mobs break into a prison and impose their own sentence.

mob rule cannot be allowed. period.

this reason is used to prevent speech in numerous ways. To preserve law and order.

 

[TEUser2K1]

blr_p, death penalty many not be necessary, but such maniacs should be locked up for life without parole. They are a danger to society.
OK, the under 18 one can be monitored and let free under strict supervision.

And I don't want quick justice, don't want to see innocent life lynched (already we started facing suicides because of false claims which is as barbaric as rape itself). But justice in law and spirit within optimum time should be utmost priority in cases like these.

 

[drkrack]

There is no question about guilt. That has already been established. The question is about the punishment.

personally i am against the death penalty. Lock them up for ten or longer than let them go.

Completely agree...
Death penalty is the easiest punishment for such heinous crime...

Instead first year their judicial hanging should be scheduled and cancelled every month. And a life sentence for 25 yrs to be awarded after that.

They should be Made to recite the whole crime every week in the name of case study to scolding mobs in every part of country for 25yrs. They should understand what the victim went through.
In short govt should abet their suicide.

 

[TEUser2K1]

^^ drkrack, am afraid rapist also thinks like you.

 

[blr_p]

Completely agree...
Death penalty is the easiest punishment for such heinous crime...

In this context, the thinking against the death peanalty is that the rapist has an incentive to murder the victim.

people in an emotional state always say death penalty will send a message to society. i don't think it will work that way.

if a rapist commits a crime because he does not believe he will be caught then death penalty as a deterrent is immaterial.

There have been cases where the victim has been killed even without death penalty.

In short govt should abet their suicide.

Custodial deaths are a big issue in indian prisons. This is why a number of activists are surprised the producer got access in the first place. The way she did it is that she said she was interested in interviewing criminals about violence against women. so she interviewed a number of rapists of which mukesh singh was one. She's in the clear and the govt has no case against her. she was shrewd enough to realise that had she said nirbhaya they would not have allowed her to do it. good for her.

 

[blr_p]

No stats doesn't say that, that's your interpretation. Stats say that Saudi Arabia is safest as far as crime against women is considered. Considering the punishment for rape in Saudi Arabia its not a surprise.
There's a analysis of the current crime against women scenario on the same site; the inference is that, all countries (with worst crime against women per capita ratios ) are X British colonies & Europe fairs worst !! Probably BBC UK should do a documentary on this as it's more relevant to them!!

If We can conveniently ignore the stats coz it doesn't suit our thinking, we can't blame the government for banning the documentary, they're also banning the documentary coz it doesn't suit their india shining campaign.

Its not about conveniently ignoring the stats. just because you have a good positoin does not necessarily imply that violence against women goes away. it never goes away. What is the table supposed to convey ? my pain is less than yours ? pain is pain.

KSA is a peculiar case or even the UAE because it can actually be quite hard to secure a conviction against a rapist.

You would think western countries are very safe for women, and relatively speaking they are. But rape does occur there too.

 

[yashvisent]

I would like to contribute my opinion on the entire "Nirbhaya episode"

I have still not seen this documentary, Whatever happened was wrong and painfull, yet more painfull is still nothing concrete is being done, these rapists who are remaining, will live out their life in jails.

The need of the hour is to bring out concrete laws and fast track the courts judgement within a time frame. And Severely limit the number of appeals / mercy petitions once the judgement is delivered by the first court.

This shows our lack of getting things done.

Incidentally i was following the dimapur incident for the past few days. I strongly feel what the mob did was right. This incident should serve the wake up call for the government and our judicial system.

Our laws and judicial system is a joke and beneficial for criminals.

Simple daily life example is to just walkin to almost any police station (even in metro cities) and see their attitude

On the other hand we should put more emphasis on quality education of people (which the politicians would never want). Educate people on respecting women. Here in India there are countless places where women are mis-treated. which is very saddening and it may take years / decades to improve...

 

[drkrack]

^^ drkrack, am afraid rapist also thinks like you.

Hahaha
On a lighter vein..
I just hope that you're not the president of India, when they apply for clemency against death penalty...

you should see their audacity after committing such a heinous crime, no remorse at all. Their further life should be miserable than their death, I didn't mean custodial killing, but they should think of a suicide everyday . They understand only one language, fear.

If a swift and stringent punishment is awarded many cases will reduce, fast tracking these cases is one solution. Justice within a month should be the target.

 

[anuragingle]

There is no question about guilt. That has already been established. The question is about the punishment.

personally i am against the death penalty. Lock them up for ten or longer than let them go.

So its been almost 1 year and the Supreme Court still cant decide on the punishment, this is the most glaring failure of our system and exposes our chalta hai attitude

If its going to take so much time for a rape conviction its better for the rape victims to be lynched by mobs and perhaps some of the judges and lawyers too

Just found out that even the Supreme Court has a backlog of 61300 cases as of Feb 2015, this proves even the Supreme Court judges are lazy assholes.

Until judges are made accountable for judicial delays the system will continue to deteriorate

 

[TEUser2K1]

Hahaha
On a lighter vein..
I just hope that you're not the president of India, when they apply for clemency against death penalty...

you should see their audacity after committing such a heinous crime, no remorse at all. Their further life should be miserable than their death, I didn't mean custodial killing, but they should think of a suicide everyday . They understand only one language, fear.

If a swift and stringent punishment is awarded many cases will reduce, fast tracking these cases is one solution. Justice within a month should be the target.

Well one of them already did suicide (or murdered ? quick justice may be?) in jail, so remorse varies from person to person.
The problem with quick justice is that in many cases, we don't get a change to know whether we are cheated or there was a false claim.
We believe the weak immediately. Remember Rohtak Sisters ?, there was a sickening documentary about them and no one even cared to discuss it. What punishment will you give to those sisters for wrecking entire life of people ?

In this very thread itself we have for eg., yashvisentr commenting mob justice was good in Dhimpur case. However, there is a huge doubt now about this entire violent fiasco. It took political and religious hues, and there are arguments that there was a false claim set on the man (imagine being in the shoes of innocent man lynched by tens of thousands). We don't know the entire truth, but are clamoring on how violently we can murder an 'alleged' rapist. We are not just misogynist, but also such a gullible, white knight society which will go on a rampage on woman's words without verifying facts.

 

[drkrack]

So its been almost 1 year and the Supreme Court still cant decide on the punishment, this is the most glaring failure of our system and exposes our chalta hai attitude

If its going to take so much time for a rape conviction its better for the rape victims to be lynched by mobs and perhaps some of the judges and lawyers too

Just found out that even the Supreme Court has a backlog of 61300 cases as of Feb 2015, this proves even the Supreme Court judges are lazy assholes.

Until judges are made accountable for judicial delays the system will continue to deteriorate

Lynch mobs should not be allowed, no matter how heinous the crime is. It's a rape of democracy, in no way justifiable . Instead we should Focus on speedy judgements.

The amount of cases pending shows two things. Many of them are cases for the sake of it. Secondly judges enjoy the same leave benefits practiced since British Era. When every other department has changed, they're working hours have remained same. Stringent monitoring of judicial process in a time based manner has to be done. The slow judicial process is a root of many crimes in India Including corruption.

The constitution based on British Era has seen so many amendments that we should think of changing it to suit a new india so is IPC, it's seriously dated.

 

[Superbad]

Well one of them already did suicide (or murdered ? quick justice, you know ?) in jail, so remorse varies from person to person.
The problem with quick justice is that in many cases, we don't get a change to know whether we are cheated or there was a false claim.
We believe the weak immediately. Remember Rohtak Sisters ?, there was a sickening documentary about them and no one even cared to discuss it. What punishment will you give to those sisters for wrecking for entire life of some people ?

In this very thread itself we have for eg., yashvisentr commenting mob justice was good in Dhimpur case. However, there is a huge doubt now about this entire violent fiasco. It took political and religious hues, and there are arguments that there was a false claim set on the man (imagine being in the shoes of innocent man lynched by tens of thousands). We don't know the entire truth, but are clamoring on how violently we can murder an 'alleged' rapist. We are not just misogynist, but also such a gullible, white knight society which will go on a rampage on woman's words without verifying facts.

to add to that, we have had incidents like the rohtak sisters falsely claiming a guy molesting them. imagine if the same mob justice was given to the then accused, would you still support those actions?

also there have been lots of stories of section498A which are used to extort families under false rape or dowry related incidents. even sometimes when sex is consensual but the girl starts calling it a rape, when things do not materialise further, so proper investigation needs to be done on that fronts.

Other than that when there are gangrapes and violence attached to it where the culprit is obvious, which was there in the nirbhaya case, the verdict or punishment, should have been doled out a lot quicker.

with the nagaland story , there is another version coming out that it was consensual but later the girl asked more money when that guy disagreed, she cried rape.
it took a turn for the worse, when they found out that the guy was an illegal immigrant from bangladesh, which brought in religious angles and led to his killing.