Help me decide: ASUS RT-N16 or Netgear WNDR3700?
- Thread starter 100khz
- Start date
RS4
Skilled
That router is a POS, so not quite astonishing for me.
the laptop has Intel's PRO/Wireless 3945ABG adapter.
Himedia HD900b Specs
Gigabit ethernet would require either cat5e or a cat6 cable.
How does the single core handle 1080p movies. Say from internal storage attached to the himedia.
Its not clear to me what the wifi capbilites of this device are other than to say its 2.4Ghz with a link speed of 65Mbs. Does the device display its link speed anywhere.
The question is does this unit have 300mbs wifi or not, the vendor page has this misleading graphic.
If it does have N300 wifi and you can reliably verify that it does then a router upgrade will improve things because your link speed will double. N300 means you will get a throughput of 20-30Mbs instead of 10-15Mbs which you currently get with the g. But this depends on how good a wifi signal your receiver gets to begin with, if its weak then even with N300 the link speed chosen will be lower.
If there is no N300 on the device a better router will only give you a marginal improvement if that.
It appears you cannot attach a third party wifi USB dongle to it either. So you cannot increase the link speed.
Now do you see why i recomended a cable
confirmed from another user that 4-5GB movie-files ran without a stutter on the media player through wifi hotspot created by his laptop.
regarding attaching a 3rd party dongle to the media player, i read one post on australian himedia forum that its possible, but i think none have reported doing the same.
also, reading one of your later posts, it gives me the impression that an N600 router would be better at streaming 10BG+ movies. am i right?! so WNDR3700? ofcourse cable-option is also good
i have never used internal storage with media player, only USB drives. it runs 1080p files smoothly.
blr_p
Skilled
Tablets are immature products for now, that is why there is no standardisation whatsoever, any tablet you choose involves difficult tradeoffs.
Its a broadcom. Pics on the FCC's site confirm it. Tabs don't take PCI-E cards. Laptops do. At the moment Broadcom only has 1 mimo chip for tabs and you've got it.
The N10 is MIMO. I don't know what other wireless device you're referring to.
D-link does N600 with USB3 the DIR-827 has USB 3 but i've not sure if its availiable in India. They have the DIR-826L instead which is only USB 2. No third party firmware possible with these.
As to which N600 routers to go with that have USB 2
Netgear WNDR 3700v3, is under Rs.7k but will not allow any 3rd part firmware AT ALL.
Netgear WNDR 3800 is Rs.9.5k but allows dd-wrt, open-wrt etc
Asus N56U has the best signal for Rs.8.5K but no option for 3rd party firmware.
Asus N16 is a N300 router ~Rs.6k and allows 3rd party firmware
I think 3rd party firmware is a good option to have. Better resale price. Dd-wrt also offers the otion of guest networks. So you can run your regular clients on one channel and use another channel exclusively just for video. The Netgears support two guest networks, one each in 2.4 & 5Ghz in stock firmware.
The Asus N56U has no guest network option at all.
You get cheaper N600's too, belkin has one at Rs.4.5k and TP-link also does one for little more i think. You want to avoid these ones if you want 5Ghz as they do not do it very well. There is a certain minimum you have to pay if you want reliable 5 Ghz. Do not go for cheapest dual band.
Or you can wait till September and new models will come out with USB 3.
That means setting the router up as a repeater bridge to boost a signal.
How to Tether an Android to a Router
Why don't you try this with your present TP-Link TL-WR340G ?
Pings will not be very good though. Slower browsing and performance very dependent on time of day.
Who is your 3G provider and what speed do you get ?
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OK, so thats a decent chip but it only does g. And you said you got very poor to zero reception on the laptop.
Why is it at just fifteen feet away and only one wall in between you get such a low signal. Did you ever get a better signal at that same location in the past with your laptop ?
What i'm not sure about is how bad your beetel router really is ? How old is it ? does it drop out frequently suggesting its dying or is it a consistent performer.
Can you try repositioning the router at a higher level and see what difference it makes.
Whether a better router will give you an acceptable signal or is the receiver in such a bad position that even a new router will make little difference is still unclear to me.
Is there a way to get the receiver to display the wifi link speed it connected up at ?
Ask on that forum how to get your reciever to do this.
Then find out whether the max was 65Mbs or 130Mbs.
If it is more, find out what router was used. A non wifi-cert compliant router could theoretically push your link speed to 260mbs at 2.4 Ghz. But this will depend on how busy your wifi neighbourhood is. Do you see many networks show up when you connect the laptop/receiver to the wifi ?
Can you link that post here ? Does he mention what link speed he got. Presumably he has tried a dongle to have 5Ghz.
Find out why he used the dongle in the first place instead of relying on the reciever's wifi and what improvements if any were had.
To use a N600 you need clients that can handle 5Ghz. Neither your laptop nor receiver can presently do 5Ghz.also, reading one of your later posts, it gives me the impression that an N600 router would be better at streaming 10BG+ movies. am i right?! so WNDR3700? ofcourse cable-option is also good
i have never used internal storage with media player, only USB drives. it runs 1080p files smoothly.
Until you can confirm whether its possible for your receiver to get a link speed of 130Mbs, even a N300 router is a waste.
If cable option is good then why not go for it. The receiver will be in a fixed position anyway. 20 meters of UTP cat6 cable will be ~Rs.500 + labour. You will be done and have 100mbs between the beetel & your reciever. If you then get a switch with gigabit ports, your NAS will have gigabit connection to the reciever. Then if you want you can even stream raw 25GB BD rips and still not care about anything.
Besides you are watching your movies the way they should be on a nice big screen instead of on some tiny tablet
rdst_1
Skilled
You had asked about the wireless capabilities of my laptop. I posted a link of the wifi solution my laptop uses. Supposedly, that too supports 5Ghz MIMO.
If I am right, N600 means 300Mbps on 2.4 and 300Mbps on 5Ghz concurrently, right. Is that enough for streaming the high quality 1080p content off the powered USB HDD connected to the router, or should I go all out and get the N900 Asus RT N66U.
I don't know anything about the custom firmwares right now, but I am more than up for it. From what my noob mind can understand, I can set up an exclusive channel/guest network on the 5Ghz band just for streaming videos, with the help of DD-WRT. Would this in any way make it cumbersome or cause complications.
If I do go for such a configuration, that would mean my tablet and/or my laptop can connect to the internet via the 2.4Ghz channel and stream Video from the guest network on the 5Ghz channel. I am guessing for doing both these concurrently is what MIMO is all about. Also will it require for some configuration changes on the tablet and laptop. As in will they be able to automatically use the different networks for different purposes and that too concurrently or will I have to install some application or make some changes in the wireless settings on the tablet and the laptop.
Will I still be able to use the HDD connected to the router if I use it as a repeater. My 3G provider is Reliance and depending upon the position of my phone and the time of the day , I get downloading speeds between 120 kBps to 400 kBps. I do admit that the browsing speeds are a tad slow though, but nothing I can't work with.
the router is not exactly the beetel make, but perhaps a 3rd-party model with MTNL's stamp on it. it's very new, barely 3-4 months old or perhaps lesser, and the performance with respect to connection-dropping, etc. has been stellar! but its location is not so good, perhaps because of which i don't get any signal at the target area. it's just kept at one corner of my PC room on the PC table, while the receiver (media-player) is placed diagonally across in the hall, separated by 2 walls and at a distance of about 15ft.
the new router, i was hoping to place it at a more suitable place in between this distance, at some elevation, which believe would help a lot.
i will check on this whether we can see the link speed on the player or not.
and there are barely 1-2 neighbourhood-networks i see when i connect my laptop to wifi.
It was actually a reply to a query on using a 3rd-party dongle, where the staff-member from himedia had replied that a 3rd-party dongle could be used, but it should have the same chipset as what the native wifi chipset is on the player (this was with regards to another model, but am assuming same should be the case with model of the player i have). to learn more on this, i will have to scour the forum's pages.
am reproducing info from futeko's website here. pls see if this helps:
Gigabit LAN The 900B supports 10/100/1000 Gigabit networking. In practical terms this means that you can transfer large file between your network and the player at lightening speeds. The 900B is capable
of streaming all video files over the network and sustained transfer rates of at least 14 MB/s.
Internal 300mbps Wi-Fi(n) The 900B comes complete with internal fast Wi-Fi(n), complete with an external antenna for great signal strength.
Comprehensive Networking Support Samba is fully supported both as a client (so you can access Windows networks) and as a host (so you can use the player as a NAS). Performance is much improved on the previous generation and, combined with the lower power usage of the 1186 chipset and the Gigabit LAN, make the 900B a very viable option as a NAS. NFS networking is also supported. The 900B will connect easily to your iPhone, iPad, or Android device by DLNA to allow streaming of your media to your HDTV. UPnP support allows you to stream content easily from popular PC / MAC applications like Windows Media Player + Hulu.
am a bit confused on this. an N600 router, if operated on 2.4GHz band, would be able to provide a better throughput than a single-band N300 router? considering that i don't have a single 5GHz compliant-device (may be i will have in future), and my primary aim to buy a new router is to stream HD movies of more than, say, 8GB of size to the player, would N16 (for 4k) be a better deal or WNDR3700 (for 7k), supposing that the player can achieve good link-speeds?
If cable option is good then why not go for it. The receiver will be in a fixed position anyway. 20 meters of UTP cat6 cable will be ~Rs.500 + labour. You will be done and have 100mbs between the beetel & your reciever. If you then get a switch with gigabit ports, your NAS will have gigabit connection to the reciever. Then if you want you can even stream raw 25GB BD rips and still not care about anything.
Besides you are watching your movies the way they should be on a nice big screen instead of on some tiny tablet
* i have placed an order today for a 20 m ethernet cable today, since i think this wireless set-up issue will take sometime to be over with, as i need to go through several forum-pages to learn more before i can jump in for it. so for the time being, will play about with the LAN set-up, and if satisfied, who knows, might as well stick to it, as i intend to buy a new router only for this streaming purpose and not for much else.
* could you pls link me to a page which tells about this 'gigabit-ports switch'?
* couldn't understand your point of comparing watching movie on TV v/s on a tab in relation to streaming. did you mean that stutter-free movie-playback on a big screen through LAN is preferable over stuttered-playback on a tab through wireless-streaming, or something of this sort?
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Skilled
Thing is i'm not certain whether your intel is a N300 or just a dual band N150, there are many wifi certs for that same chip, during the years '06 - '09. Guess Intel kept the same model number but continuously upgraded it. If you bought your Dell closer to '09 than '06 chances are its the same wifi specs as your N10.
1)
2.4 Ghz = 2 x n65(@20Mhz) = 130
5.0 Ghz = 2 x n150(@40Mhz) = 300
N300 on 2.4Ghz is a marketing term, @20Mhz it gives you 130mbs max link speed. @40Mhz its 260mbs. But 40Mhz on 2.4Ghz is provided the router supports it, won't happen if the router & client complies with wi-fi certs and if not will be susceptible to interference if your neighbour has a wifi network on the same channel. 40Mhz on 2.4 ghz uses 2 channels out of 3. whereas 5 Ghz@40Mhz uses 2 channels out of 24 available.
Its concurrent only on the router.
2) Is it enough ? depends on how much data your movies require at any given point. So to take the guesswork out of this you will have to conduct some experiments. Try this app called Netmeter with your laptop. Paid app with a free trial, supposedly for a month.
Connect laptop to your router with a ethernet cable. Then play back a movie from your HDD connected to the router on the laptop, especially the ones that gave your trouble during the action scenes. Ensure that the movie is the only app using the network on the laptop. Then note the data rate netmeter shows when playing the troublesome part. Let it play for a few minutes to get an idea of how much data that consumes. The spikes or peak rates are what you want to know.
Post screen shots of netmeter. You will prolly want to try this with your largest files and most action packed scenes. Also try with different coding formats. Some i think are constant whereas others are variable. If the movies were encoded with constant flow rate then its much simpler as you have no unpredictable spikes to deal with.
Otherwise you will notice how the data spikes, depending on how fast the action goes. Well, each movie you have has a different peak. How to find the peak of all your movies ? Try as many movies as you can. I wish there was an app that you could feed your movies to and it came back with one peak figure per movie, then analysed all your movies. Then all you need is a router that can handle the biggest number with a safety buffer of the same or half on top and you are done.
Not found any app that can do this so netmeter is the best i know of atm. Though any app that measures real time network activity will do.
Given both (?) your clients are 2 x 300, getting a N900 won't get you more. You won't be able to make use of the 450 bit as neither client handles it. Why get dark knight when a N600 is the most your clients can use.
The usual disclaimer applies here with alternative firmware ie you risk bricking your device if you do not know what you're doing. Though with good instructions its possible to use dd-wrt, dinjo already has a long thread here on it.
Alternative firmware gives you more options ie features that you won't find in stock. It won't necessarily give you better performance. This is a subtle point, the vendor knows their hardware better than anybody else. A 3rd party won't do better but if the vendor cannot sort out bugs then 3rd party just might come to the rescue.
You don't have to use it if your requirements are already met. I just recommended it as an option should it be needed in the future.
1) You connect the tablet to the 5ghz and non video wifi clients ie laptop on the 2.4 Ghz. Guest networks are just a feature netgear throws in in case you have friends who want to use your wifi when they visit you. Allows them to use the web without seeing what's on your LAN. Same with guest networks on dd-wrt.
In theory if there are not many users any dual band router will do. It gives you 2 nets to work with. Stick everybody else on the 2.4 and use video on 5.
Guest networks increase that to 3 or 4 nets depedning on the model. Your call whether you require this or not.
2) MIMO means your client gets a better chance to receive the signal your router puts out because it has 2 receivers than a client that has just one. It also has 2 senders so faster transmission both ways.
3) No special config required on the client, they just connect to either net. Wifi clients do not work concurrently on the two bands, they connect to just one net. The router concurrently handles clients on both bands.
You should be able to use the HDD connected to the router as is.
If you use the router configured as a repeater then your download speeds will be halved (!) That's just the nature of using a repeater, halves the speed at each hop.
If you want to retain the same speeds then you need an alternative configuration. A USB-Ethernet bridge. To create this bridge you will have to dedicate either a pc or laptop for the job. Basically you share the connection from the cellphone via the PC which is then hooked up to the router. You will have to bridge the usb & ethernet connections. But your bridge pc now has no network connectivity anywhere.
To get that on the bridge pc, it requires either its internal wifi or an extra USB ethernet adapter to hook up to the router.
cellphone (usb)----->(usb) laptop (ethernet)---->wifi router<-- HDD+wired clients )))) wifi client(1)....client(n)
The router just sees a long line to the cellphone.
Why are you using 3G this way, isn't the landline connection better & cheaper ?
blr_p
Skilled
If it has been a stellar performer then i would try to relocate the 450TC1 itself within your PC room to get a better signal than you get currently in the target position. You have to find what is the best place to locate your existing router before you can expect any improvement with a new one.
In your first post here you said there was one wall. In your last post above you state two walls.
How many walls is it ? one or two
How many inches thick is the wall btw.
Usually it should be a click away from the screen where you connect up to wifi. Or on some status screen.
Your laptop can only see g networks. But your receiver can see n networks.
So how many wifi networks does the receiver report ?
Do you have any wifi 'n' android devices ?
So presumably a realtek dongle is workable, but until you see more people confirming that this actually works, i would not go in for a dongle.
That is just marketing literature, there are no specs listed on the vendors site at all.
What stumped me is this term 'internal 300mbs wi-fi'. I've not seen wifi being referred to as internal before. I suppose the intent is to say that the device already has wifi so no need for dongles etc. No need to attach any external wifi peripheral.
Can we assume this is a N300 device ? only until somebody posts link speeds to confirm it.
Not necessarily, the output will be similar for both at 2.4Ghz for the two models mentioned in this thread title. Some other models might give you more range over others with slightly more throughput.
An N300 does not operate on 5Ghz at all, so the N600 provides double the speed on 5 ghz provided your devices are close enough and are MIMO.
Since you have no 5ghz devices then a dual band router is no use. Unless you either replace your media receiever with one that can handle 5ghz or get a laptop that can do the same.
The N300 asus16 is a better choice. But if your reciever is not MIMO ie its not N300 then even this router will not give you the double speed you expect over an N150.
Until you confirm what your receiver is capable of your choice are either N150 or N300. N600 is out of the question for you with your present devices.
If streaming is all you need then you don't need a new router and can hold onto all your existing devices.* i have placed an order today for a 20 m ethernet cable today, since i think this wireless set-up issue will take sometime to be over with, as i need to go through several forum-pages to learn more before i can jump in for it. so for the time being, will play about with the LAN set-up, and if satisfied, who knows, might as well stick to it, as i intend to buy a new router only for this streaming purpose and not for much else.
Place the ethernet cable at least two feet away from any electrical lines or tube lights and you should be good.
Any gigibit switch will do. I had seen a d-link in a shop for ~Rs.1.5k.
Simply that watching a movie on a bigger screen is preferable to a smaller screen. You bought a receiver to watch on a big screen in the first place. Stutter free, should be a given regardless of screen size.
There is one thing i'd like to know though, is it possible to install android apps in your receiver ?
There is some mention to playstore so i wondered whether its possible for you do this.
first of all, thanks blr_p for the great stretch you've gone to assist me in quelling the confusion! you stand repped
since towards the end of your latest post you have made it clear that just for streaming there's no need to buy a router (even though amply making it clear which one to go for anyway, in case), so i think we should now forget about the wifi-thing, for now, and i should not buckle up for setting up a wired connection instead. but nevertheless, in reply to the queries you had raised, i'll furnish some info.
in my 1st post, i was writing in relation to the router i wish(ed) to buy, which would've been placed at a more convenient location, outside of my PC room, from where there's only 1 wall obstructing the path to the media-player. but with my present router in the PC room, there're 2 walls. the walls are of ~3-4 inches thickness, not more. but i'll for now play about with setting up the present router only to a more suitable place in order to get optimum signal at the target-area.
i'll confirm with some user on this subject of where can the link-speed be seen on the media-player's interface. also, i've discarded the idea of getting a dongle. 'internal wifi' label, yes, means that one doesn't need to use any external wifi devices as a chipset for that is built in the player itself.
i'll take care of proximity to electrical lines while installing the cable when i receive it. once a successful ethernet connection is achieved, i'll move on to knowing more about the gigabit-switch.
and yes, android apps can be installed on this player. when the player was released, many users were lamenting that many useful features of the product were sacrificed in order to accommodate android into the system, which also had resulted in delay in releasing the product (this was common with other brands' players too at the time who had incorporated 'android-candy', like xtreamer, etc.)
since towards the end of your latest post you have made it clear that just for streaming there's no need to buy a router (even though amply making it clear which one to go for anyway, in case), so i think we should now forget about the wifi-thing, for now, and i should not buckle up for setting up a wired connection instead. but nevertheless, in reply to the queries you had raised, i'll furnish some info.
in my 1st post, i was writing in relation to the router i wish(ed) to buy, which would've been placed at a more convenient location, outside of my PC room, from where there's only 1 wall obstructing the path to the media-player. but with my present router in the PC room, there're 2 walls. the walls are of ~3-4 inches thickness, not more. but i'll for now play about with setting up the present router only to a more suitable place in order to get optimum signal at the target-area.
i'll confirm with some user on this subject of where can the link-speed be seen on the media-player's interface. also, i've discarded the idea of getting a dongle. 'internal wifi' label, yes, means that one doesn't need to use any external wifi devices as a chipset for that is built in the player itself.
i'll take care of proximity to electrical lines while installing the cable when i receive it. once a successful ethernet connection is achieved, i'll move on to knowing more about the gigabit-switch.
and yes, android apps can be installed on this player. when the player was released, many users were lamenting that many useful features of the product were sacrificed in order to accommodate android into the system, which also had resulted in delay in releasing the product (this was common with other brands' players too at the time who had incorporated 'android-candy', like xtreamer, etc.)
blr_p
Skilled
Much clearer now, the receiver is static and in a fixed position but if you can move the router then you reduce the variables.
Do try your existing router in the new location and see what difference it makes. This will give you a much better idea of what is possible or not. 10 feet and 1 wall in between i would imagine would get you a good signal at the receiver. You can try to stream your files and see what the performance is like.
If all is well then in the new location your existing router should get you a link speed of 54Mbs. Given that its yet to be confirmed whether you have MIMO i could not advise to get a new router.
With wired you do not care how big your media files are or whether there is any interference, it will just work.
Reason i asked is whether an android player like Bsplayer might be able to do better than the stock player included in your receiver. It has a buffer which is very useful when streaming files. Of course if you have a wired connection then buffering isn't required and the stock player in the receiver will suffice.and yes, android apps can be installed on this player. when the player was released, many users were lamenting that many useful features of the product were sacrificed in order to accommodate android into the system, which also had resulted in delay in releasing the product (this was common with other brands' players too at the time who had incorporated 'android-candy', like xtreamer, etc.)
Actually i'm in the process myself of finding a receiver that has good wifi. Not found any suitable candidates yet.
neerajvohra
Disciple
My friend is using two TP Link 150N routers connected in WDS bridged mode and he gets signal upto the street below the building. Cheapest way to increase signals.
alright. but now am geared up for wired-connection. got the cable today, will try setting it up in a few days.
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this idea was suggested to me by one other member as well. can't recall who.
blr_p
Skilled
You get better range with a 22 mhz (54mbs) channel than a 40 mhz (150,300mbs) channel. That would make sense as reducing the channel width increases the range.
If there was a way to reduce the channel width further say down to 10mhz or even 5 mhz you'd get even more range. Found that nugget in a paper i'm reading atm.
Thing is you'd lose throughput but if the signal was good and the requirement was low you got a boost there for free. Stock f/w won't allow it but i think dd-wrt allows for 10mhz channels. Thinner channels means less interference from the neighbours as well.
Wish there was a way to get this working with a repeater setup because then you'd be able to get those patchy spots, but i think the repeater has to match the base stations channel width.
I think this is because the range is better from lower channel width and that is why you get a 6dB increase. Since you have MIMO you benefit further from the twin paths the signal takes.
But the router as a consequence having more power to put out on the 5 Ghz band is more sketchy for me. The unit is designed to be able to simultaneously put out the power required at 300mbs for both. Lower demand on one band should not automatically translate into more power available for the other band.
The 5GHz and 2.4GHz band have two independent radios with two antennae each. I was talking about the use case, not the router's power.
A very good eBay seller who puts out a bunch of info: 7dBi Antenna Mod Kit for Netgear N600 WNDR3700 V 3 Dual Gigabit 4 Antennas | eBay
A very good eBay seller who puts out a bunch of info: 7dBi Antenna Mod Kit for Netgear N600 WNDR3700 V 3 Dual Gigabit 4 Antennas | eBay
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Skilled
Any thoughts on that mod ?
I've found no reviews at all and one comment advising against this antenna mod as the amps are 'specially tuned with MIMO codes' and sticking those external ants on the unit will not yield much improvement. I think a repeater would be a better option. The whole point of MIMO is to use multi-signal path and yield a better throughput than bigger gain antennas in a smaller form factor.
This caught my attention
Channels 52-64 & 149 - 161 seems to have more transmit power than the lower band.
Unfortunately the mid band are all DFS so my tab does not pick them up neither can it see the upper 5ghz band either.
Can you receive any in the middle or high band and is there any signal/throughput improvement as a result ?
I have sufficient coverage and bandwidth, the link was of academic interest specially when comparing the V2 and V3 (I have the V2) an the internal structure.
My Centrino 6230 sees all the bands, and I did try the upper band but the reception was lousy so I dropped to the mid band and I get 7-dBm or better almost everywhere in the house.
My Centrino 6230 sees all the bands, and I did try the upper band but the reception was lousy so I dropped to the mid band and I get 7-dBm or better almost everywhere in the house.
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Skilled
oh yeah, V3 is crippled in terms of alternative firmware.
The V4, i hear is actually a repackaged WNDR4300, this will be an interesting model.
The only 'country' setting i've found that allows the mid band is Europe. This also gives the best signal for some reason in comparison to other country settings.
I'm not sure why that ebay seller indicates that the mid and high bands allow a vastly higher power output than the lower.
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Skilled
Have you still got the Nexus 10 ?
rdst_1
Skilled
No I don't. In fact I don't even have a router anymore either. Using my mobile as a wi-fi hotspot for my internet needs and I watch all my TV Series etc on my PC now.
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Skilled
Ah, but there is still one thing i'd like to know.
What the bitrate of your 14GB 1080p movies is like to get a ballpark figure of bandwidth required. Want to know what (in theory) is and isn't possible to stream via wifi.
There is this nifty tool that analyses any video files and posts a peak and avg rate. Can you run it on some of your movies 1080p and 720p and let us know what the bitrates (peak & avg) are like. Its quite quick and takes only a few mins per movie.
Bitrate Viewer