Audio Do iPods have poor sound quality?

^^ I honestly wouldn't buy a hdd based player again mainly due to the fact that flash memory has hit capacities of almost 64 GB with 16 GB being pretty affordable. So in future I would not think twice about getting a smaller flash player like the Sansa Clip + with an expandable memory slot and upgrade the memory as required. :)
 
everybody seems to be focusing on sound quality in regard to headphones, so just to add a bit of perspective to the discussion i want to explain the huge difference i've noticed in my car. i am definitely an audiophile, i've spent around $4000 on my audio system in my car. i have polyglass focal speakers in the front doors, rear doors, and rear deck. there is a 12" t1 rockford fosgate in the trunk all powered by pioneer amps (4x150 and 1x600). i decided to opt out of buying a new deck for fear of losing steering wheel controls and bought an audiocontrol lc7 (a 7 channel line output converter which basically serves the same purpose as a deck, however, and this is important for the purposes of this discussion, it does not include any sort of EQ controls). so because of this the output of my mp3 player is actually where all of the base sound quality is coming from.
so i started out with a samsung p2 as my music source and it had great sound quality, and easy to use EQ settings. after a year of rough use however the headphone jack input became loose and so it was time to buy something else. i ended up getting an iphone not even thinking of what the SQ would be like and i was extremely disappointed. at first i thought it might just be the fact that the iphone is a multifunction device rather than solely a media player until i was disappointed again when i tried a 5g ipod. in my opinion iphones/ipods are horrible when it comes to SQ and i would strongly recommend something more along the lines of the samsung p2 such as a cowon.
 
Anyone here has an idea of the SQ of sflo2 available on mp4nation.net. I lost my Cowon D2 at home ( yea left it on the table and now its not there so apparently someone stole it ).

So now looking for a new player. Read good things about the Clip+ being VFM but i guess D2 has better SQ. So choices are D2+ , sflo2, Cowon S9? Which would have good SQ.

Any other suggestions?
 
This topic is debatable , some D2 owners have told me that they found the Clip+ to be better sounding than the D2 as well ;).

Its the added sound effects features (BBE) that make the D2 sound better after tweaking .
 
iPods don't have a poor sound quality.
Songs distributed through iTunes had a lower bitrate than what many enthusiasts and producers of music were happy with. This just meant that distributers of music could not make their songs as loud as they wanted to, when they were distributing through iTunes (a lot of bitrate is used up in making songs loud, rather than the musical content) - an example is the Death Magnetic album. This is the reason iPods got the rep of having a bad sound quality, does not apply to broken pods.
Additionally, large songs take a slightly longer time to load, but such constraints are there in many players. Because iPods have no external memory, the battery lasts slightly longer, but not when compared to players that have more robust power sources.
Cowon players drive the headphones better, and offer a longer battery life, although some of their touch players were pretty buggy. I use the D2+ and am happy with it, but I use a friend's nano now and then, and cannot make out any difference in the sound quality.
 
U r a FANBOY! Admittance is the first positive step u can take!

spawnfreak said:
are you nuts??? iPods have the best sound quality among its competition... that's why they sells like hot cakes and more compared to their creative n cowon counterparts...

i've owned a shuffle 2G, nano 4G and my used my bro's ipod touch 3G and all three can kill cheap ones like clip+ and fuze stuff...
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This sounds interesting! I've am happy with the SQ of my Shuffle 1GB, with E5 the sound gets slightly better and louder, surpringly when i connected the E5 with a friend's lat gen 8GB nano there was no increase in volume and sound quality :eek: i wonder why!

FaH33m said:
This topic is debatable , some D2 owners have told me that they found the Clip+ to be better sounding than the D2 as well ;).

Its the added sound effects features (BBE) that make the D2 sound better after tweaking .
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Appriciate your honesty!

Uriel said:
:)I use the D2+ and am happy with it, but I use a friend's nano now and then, and cannot make out any difference in the sound quality.
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Uriel said:
Songs distributed through iTunes had a lower bitrate than what many enthusiasts and producers of music were happy with.
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AAC is slightly better than MP3 for the same bitrate in terms of quality but its a lossy codec like mp3.

What bitrate do tracks sold by iTunes normally come in ?
Uriel said:
This just meant that distributers of music could not make their songs as loud as they wanted to, when they were distributing through iTunes (a lot of bitrate is used up in making songs loud, rather than the musical content) - an example is the Death Magnetic album. This is the reason iPods got the rep of having a bad sound quality, does not apply to broken pods.
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This makes no sense at all, to make songs loud, all they do is put them through limiters & compressors. This does not mean the file size will become much larger. The bitrate goes up if the encoder settings used to make the tracks is stricter or targets a higher bitrate to begin with.

Uriel said:
Additionally, large songs take a slightly longer time to load, but such constraints are there in many players. Because iPods have no external memory, the battery lasts slightly longer, but not when compared to players that have more robust power sources.
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define 'more robust' ?

Uriel said:
I use the D2+ and am happy with it, but I use a friend's nano now and then, and cannot make out any difference in the sound quality.
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This would imply its the source of the tracks that's the problem rather than the players itself. Tho I'm surprised you say you cannot tell the difference because I've read here many times ppl actually saying how much better the Cowon sounded in comparison to the iPod.

I put it down to a better quality DAC in the Cowon that was noticeable with good phones.
 
iPods are good but not the best in case of sound quality..

I've personally compared Sansa Clip+, iPod touch 2G. Also hear iPod touch 80GB for some hours.. Clip+ is way better than iPods...
 
FaH33m said:
This topic is debatable , some D2 owners have told me that they found the Clip+ to be better sounding than the D2 as well ;).

Its the added sound effects features (BBE) that make the D2 sound better after tweaking .
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That latter part is BS, a fallacy. The iPod Touch has a nearly flat response curve, I've just measured it, with some lab equipment courtesy Sennheiser India - it's actually as close to neutral as possible, which is what is needed for a source. If you want bias, you chose a warm headphone, headamp or such, you never start with a biased source...

People who say the D2 is better are newbie idiots who seriously don't know better...Most people here are bass-heads anyways, which is why I see posts of Sansa Clips being better. Perceived better isn't better, because their benchmark is the best they've heard, which in 95 percent cases is very basic equipment. Moreover, biases towards one particular region of the frequency spectrum cannot be ruled out.
 
Vandal said:
it's actually as close to neutral as possible, which is what is needed for a source. If you want bias, you chose a warm headphone, headamp or such, you never start with a biased source...
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Interest bit of info there :eek:hyeah:

This is exactly what i meant by having a 'baseline' in an earlier convo with Fah33m. Thing is I did not think about the source i started a step further with neutral phones and using that as a baseline to compare other phones with.

Certainly a neutral source to best to begin with when reviewing headsets :)
 
@ Vandal I don't doubt your lab tests and measurements at all but did you guys also test the Sansa Clip+ ? Have you done a A/B comparison between the SQ of a ipod touch and Clip+ ?

and are all the highly regarded audiophiles on head-fi who hold the Sansa Clip+ at the highest position in terms of portable sound and neutrality , bass heads as well ? ;)
 
Question- I have 14k to spend on a player. My music library occupies nearly 20GB...And I always need a couple of sitcoms and loads of movies....
I'm worried that flash cycles get over soon due to my everyday use....I need something that can last and has space and mainly great sound quality....
What should I go for?
 
Vandal said:
People who say the D2 is better are newbie idiots who seriously don't know better...Most people here are bass-heads anyways, which is why I see posts of Sansa Clips being better. Perceived better isn't better, because their benchmark is the best they've heard, which in 95 percent cases is very basic equipment. Moreover, biases towards one particular region of the frequency spectrum cannot be ruled out.
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Well I'm a newbie idiot who says a Clip+ sounds better than a D2. I've sued UE triple fi 10, AT ESW9, Denon D5000 and for every headphone, the clip+ sounded better.

What would you like to have? a player that sounds good on paper or a player that sounds good in your ears? ;)
 
I somehow find Vandal's posts a bit intriguing these days! He really seems to loathe every post made in the forum and defy others' claims. Agreed there are people testing every equipment out there and concluding results as they feel like, but one has to realise that one man's meat is another's poison.
 
Desecrator said:
I somehow find Vandal's posts a bit intriguing these days! He really seems to loathe every post made in the forum and defy others' claims. Agreed there are people testing every equipment out there and concluding results as they feel like, but one has to realise that one man's meat is another's poison.
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This sort of critique is too general to be of any use...why not pick apart what he said :)

Vandal said:
That latter part is BS, a fallacy. The iPod Touch has a nearly flat response curve, I've just measured it, with some lab equipment courtesy Sennheiser India - it's actually as close to neutral as possible, which is what is needed for a source. If you want bias, you chose a warm headphone, headamp or such, you never start with a biased source...
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He tested it and finds the Touch to be neutral, any probs here ? I don't see any
Vandal said:
People who say the D2 is better are newbie idiots who seriously don't know better...Most people here are bass-heads anyways, which is why I see posts of Sansa Clips being better.
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The implication here is the D2 as well as the Sansa Clip are NOT neutral.

Vandal said:
Perceived better isn't better, because their benchmark is the best they've heard, which in 95 percent cases is very basic equipment. Moreover, biases towards one particular region of the frequency spectrum cannot be ruled out.
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I don't see any problem with this either. One of the main aims of setting a baseline with neutral sources is to rule out any of the biases. If the reviewer then tells you its bright vs dark, upfront vs laidback, harsh vs refined, its quite clear what is meant.

If after this he says its better than x or y then you also know what his biases are. You may or may not agree but at least you have some idea why he said it.
 
Desecrator said:
I somehow find Vandal's posts a bit intriguing these days! He really seems to loathe every post made in the forum and defy others' claims. Agreed there are people testing every equipment out there and concluding results as they feel like, but one has to realise that one man's meat is another's poison.
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Frankly, we could say the same about you :bleh:

The way you've been shooting your mouth off :mad:! Not to mention the airs you take at times :tongue:

HAD to say this after you of all people decided to take on vandy :ashamed:
 
blr_p said:
This sort of critique is too general to be of any use...why not pick apart what he said :)
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Offlately I've seen him criticising almost every hardware out there - the GTX480, some of the newer cans, DACs and what not! oConstructive criticism is welsome. Not all of them could have been fortunate to have such high-end hardware tested and auditioned for sometime but Vandal should never defy others and the sorts. Almost everyone here started off afresh. No one was born with a pair of cans on his ears or with 3D glasses nor would have moolah to blow it on such gear either. Respect others' opinion and move on. That's all I wanted to say.
 
Few months back, I needed to buy a flash memory player (small) for myself...so here's how I approached it:

iPod's: Require Itunes to upload media, didn't wanted that...so rejected it..

Cowon D2+: Did read quite a good stuff about it, its very accurate and all but also read its very analytical and cold sounding (not musical)..so decided to steer away from it.

Sony Walkman: Nice players, warm sounding and good bass reproduction (i'm not a total bass head...but I do like bass and hate bright sounding players)...but again no Universal Mass Storage (UMS) support...but its still better than iPod since it got Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) which is quite standard and supported by many players...



Sansa Clip: Good little player...but again some called it cold sounding and also battery life rated is just 15 hours which makes carrying charger a must if I go on short trip..

Cowon iAudio 7: Read reviews and maybe not the most accurate sounding but found, most people mentioned it to be musical and fun with warm sound, has useful set of DSPs like Mach3bass, BBE, mp enhance(similar to crystalizer)..Also battery life is 60 hours and has both UMS and MTP support..

I went ahead and bought Cowon iAudio 7...got it second hand from a member from head-fi and so far I like the player and its SQ, the cons I can say for it are:

UI takes time to get used to..and not very comfortable if u want to seek ahead/seek back in a song...
Just wanted to convey the message that not everybody wants an accurate sounding player...get the player which suits ur musical taste personally...

IMO go for Cowon D2 if u like hearing sound which has more highs like Jazz or Classical music...

Sony Walkman, if u like laid back sound with more emphasis on bass...
 
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