Demonetisation and its Aftermath
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One more possible rule change and retraction of earlier commitment in the works.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...es-after-december-30/articleshow/56189260.cms
5X penalty for anybody still holding old notes beyond Rs 10,000. So, if you hold 10,000 in old notes, you can be forced to pay 50,000 in penalty.
That begs the questions
1. What happens to the the earlier commitment of being able to return currency to RBI branches till end of march. I guess no more deposits since govt does not want any more money coming back even if its white.
2. What happens to the people who are in other countries with INR currency (Indians are allowed to carry and keep up to Rs 25,000 outside the country) who could not return to India before Dec 30th? Not only will they lose their money, but can also be penalized 1.25 Lac for holding currency even if its within the legal limit of 25k.
3. What happens to all the people (mostly the poor in villages) who did not have bank accounts and were not unable to deposit or exchange their old notes. Since the banks have a freeze on opening accounts till Dec 31, there are many people who could not make deposits at all unless they knew somebody else who would help them by depositing into their own accounts. Now not only those people would have lost their life's savings, but can also be forced to pay penalties unless they burn or otherwise destroy their money themselves.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...es-after-december-30/articleshow/56189260.cms
5X penalty for anybody still holding old notes beyond Rs 10,000. So, if you hold 10,000 in old notes, you can be forced to pay 50,000 in penalty.
That begs the questions
1. What happens to the the earlier commitment of being able to return currency to RBI branches till end of march. I guess no more deposits since govt does not want any more money coming back even if its white.
2. What happens to the people who are in other countries with INR currency (Indians are allowed to carry and keep up to Rs 25,000 outside the country) who could not return to India before Dec 30th? Not only will they lose their money, but can also be penalized 1.25 Lac for holding currency even if its within the legal limit of 25k.
3. What happens to all the people (mostly the poor in villages) who did not have bank accounts and were not unable to deposit or exchange their old notes. Since the banks have a freeze on opening accounts till Dec 31, there are many people who could not make deposits at all unless they knew somebody else who would help them by depositing into their own accounts. Now not only those people would have lost their life's savings, but can also be forced to pay penalties unless they burn or otherwise destroy their money themselves.
Mr.J
Skilled
It's like the government is hellbent on proving Modi's defenders wrong, especially the claim about this being a well thought out plan.
But don't worry, we will surely get reasons like 'trying to keep corrupts on their toes', 'prior warnings would've alerted black money hoarders', 'closing loopholes as they come up' etc.
What people fail to understand that you have to follow democratic procedures even if it means letting few criminals find a way around. That's the sacrifice you have to make for living in a country that doesn't run on its leader's whims.
But don't worry, we will surely get reasons like 'trying to keep corrupts on their toes', 'prior warnings would've alerted black money hoarders', 'closing loopholes as they come up' etc.
What people fail to understand that you have to follow democratic procedures even if it means letting few criminals find a way around. That's the sacrifice you have to make for living in a country that doesn't run on its leader's whims.
This is what comes to mind..
cellar_door
Adept
What the hell is our Media doing? They should be raking the PM over the coals for this.
6pack
ex-Mod
90 per cent of scrapped notes back in system
There was never that much black money in the system to begin with I suppose. Most of this 90% money is just savings of people who did not have bank accounts or who used it for day-day cash transactions. The real black money must have been digitised long time back by some other way to be able to send the money to offshore accounts or have been used to buy property in cities and villages.
There was never that much black money in the system to begin with I suppose. Most of this 90% money is just savings of people who did not have bank accounts or who used it for day-day cash transactions. The real black money must have been digitised long time back by some other way to be able to send the money to offshore accounts or have been used to buy property in cities and villages.
6pack
ex-Mod
New Rule: Soon, Punishment For Holding More Than 10 Old Notes, Centre Clears Ordinance
Are they going to do house to house search Nazi style now to look for old notes?
Are they going to do house to house search Nazi style now to look for old notes?
Are people waking up to the fact that they do not own the money or something like that..
yashvisent
Disciple
PM to address the nation before new year.
6pack
ex-Mod
It's going to become even more hell. I read in TOI that Modi will target people holding unnamed properties next. So wonder what sort of strike he will do on entire India. Probably ask everyone to line up in front of municipal registry office with property documents in hand.
People should act, more you stay like this more they will take advantage of you. Either modi should be forced to resign or this govt should get dissolved & president should take over for the time period. There is no unity in this country.
Now honestly how many of you really voted for him? from the start I never had any trust on him. An illiterate marketing person cannot run a country. If we don't do anything nothing will happen. Freedom came at a cost. This country is our future how can these idiots give the responsibility of our future to these chors. Unite. Condemn his bullshits over every social media do not support him. A man who plays with our future is a man of highest criminal offence.
India can only rise if we work together. if this thing goes on then it will corrupt our thinking too. Actually I also want black money now because I see that only people with lots of black money are only getting benefit from this by converting them into white. Hell with others. These idiots will play with our money & kick us what kind of stupidity is this?
This is the biggest scam in this country fuelled by the people of india itself.
Now honestly how many of you really voted for him? from the start I never had any trust on him. An illiterate marketing person cannot run a country. If we don't do anything nothing will happen. Freedom came at a cost. This country is our future how can these idiots give the responsibility of our future to these chors. Unite. Condemn his bullshits over every social media do not support him. A man who plays with our future is a man of highest criminal offence.
India can only rise if we work together. if this thing goes on then it will corrupt our thinking too. Actually I also want black money now because I see that only people with lots of black money are only getting benefit from this by converting them into white. Hell with others. These idiots will play with our money & kick us what kind of stupidity is this?
This is the biggest scam in this country fuelled by the people of india itself.
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Okaayyyy
Yes people don't even know that, its a note is a legal tender with RBI and you own the value it imparts and not the note itself. There are similar illogical videos throughout the thread where a person doesn't even know what does nationalization of banks mean , leave alone What is SLR or DiRGC guarantee.
Hopefully the cash crunch will settle in coming months, cash is never going to be available as long as there are people ready to pay 20-30% commission for valid currency. Once the window of exchange for old currency closes, the cash will be more easily available. The amount of corruption by the bank officials is being exposed on daily basis, who'll put the govt officials to shame. So many IT raids indicates that what a govt can achieve if it wholeheartedly tries to get something working. I was in Kochi in first week of December , no Qs anywhere as cash was freely available in ATM s. But it's Kerala, where 99% population is literate, and it is uncommon to find beggars in Kerala.
There's no doubt that Demonetisation was horribly implemented, but in such a vast country it is a very complicated enough to implement. Most of the economists start with a apologetic note that, they aren't sure what is going to happen, but people are prejudiced enough to realize that. Blaming the government for frequently changing policies is appropriate but will you like a government being inflexible in such a crucial period?
One more illogical argument is black money hoarders aren't affected and not seen in ATM Qs. Let's be clear a person hoarding say 100cr in black will be earning at least 75k per day, do you expect him to stand in Qs? It all depends on how many black money hoarders you know, and how many of them will confide with you thinking that you'll be able to help them get rid of the stash? In my experience there's equally palpable fear on their side too.
The Indian Jugaad seems to be working much effectively in converting the stash, but still you can't say Demonetisation has been totally ineffective. With 20 - 35% commission rates for currency conversion, you have to acknowledge that the move has reduced black money by 30% at least.
Move to a cashless economy could've been organized much earlier before Demonetisation. But people wouldn't have shown much interest if it was pushed earlier. We Indians are more like Rockets (no not in speed sense), we don't move until our a** is on fire.
People are getting adjusted to a cashless system and endured tough period boldly, its their victory not the governments if we are able to successfully pull this act through.
I'm still confused about the role of opposition in the country, they are not putting enough united fight and engaging in political rhetoric than any constructive opposition. Modi has gambled his whole political career with this move which has been very poorly implemented but opposition unable to make anything out of it. There's no much intellectual quotient difference between RG and Kejri as far as logical arguments are concerned.
Similar opposition was put forth against globalization by BJP then, now after 20 yrs we are reaping the benefits. The real benefits of a cashless economy will take years to come, someone has to make a start.
I doubt that its going to any time soon or at least soon enough for it not leave long lasting damage. Based on the overly optimistic estimates around multiple shifts and presses running 24/7 without failures, its going to take 6-8 months. Again, what people need is petty cash and not Rs 2000 notes and we have yet to see that being prioritized others than in empty words.
A small and selective raid here and there is little more than hogwash. How much amount have they caught in all these raids so far? Rs 4000 crore? Even with the estimation 3% for the black money in cash form, it should still be at least 1.5~2 lac crore. 4000 crore is like what fraction of that fraction?
Modi made tall claims that he will bring back all the black money in hidden in every nook and corner, but what about the people flaunting their black money in plain eye sight right from Modi's own cabinet? Nitin Gadkari for instance never paid income tax in his whole damn life and his annual income is Rs 44,000 as per his 2008 ITR, and 2.47 lac as per 2013 ITR, but that didn't stop him from spending Rs 200 crore (or more) apiece for the lavish wedding of his son in 2010 and more recently his daughters wedding right in the middle of this fiasco. No raids against him. Even sent details to the IT dept email id setup for whistle blowing (not that like there's anything hidden here to necessitate whistle blowing), but as expected, no action and no hopes of that happening in future.
If PM was really interested in black money, I bet that a proper scrutiny of this single guy alone will yield several thousand crore's (if not lac's) of black money.
Maybe among the small scale hoarders. The large scale ones don't give a damn because its not hard earned money and even if they throw it away, they will just earn more later. Do you think that people like Nitin Gadkari would give a damn about literally throwing way a few 10's or 100 core of cash when they have thousands of crores of black money hoarded up outside the country or invested here and there and having the means and ability to amass more black money.
So, its of-course, only the innocent people suffering. In any case, as soon as a single innocent person suffers in the process of supposed catching of wrongdoers, its already a crime on the people and miscarriage of justice.
LOL @ the calculation of the 30% reduction figure. If some thief stole Rs 1000 from you and gives a Rs 300 cut to a fellow thief, does that mean that you lost only Rs 700 now since the thief who stole from you has only Rs 700 ?
How is a corrupt person with 100 Crore black money giving 30 crore to corrupt bank official equate to 30% reduction in black money. Here is what it means. Black money has has remained the same, but the corruption has increased from before since exchanging cash this way counts as as an act of corruption. As for the cost, don't forget that there is cost associated with printing the new currency, transporting it, collection the old currency and destroying it.
So what it means is that after spending 1.3~1.5 lac crore (and counting since the long term damage is still hard to estimate) in an the exercise to supposedly catch about 1.5 lac crore of black money which a small fraction of the black economy, the govt caught only a small fraction of that fraction. At the same time, corruption has increased and number of people with black money has increased. i.e 1 person with black money previously vs 2 persons with 70% and 30% cuts or in other cases even 500 people with small cuts for helping deposit the cash.
In the present fiasco, it is little more than hogwash to force people to part with their cash and more importantly gold in future and lose their personal freedom in the process. There is a reason why many govt's want to push people toward cashless economy and societies that want to keep their freedom and rights intact do not allow that. In such societies, even if govt succeeds to some extent, what's going to happen is that the people will end up creating some alternative form of currency and start using that instead.
Its all fine and dandy to say that we can be cashless, but there are lot many failure points for a cashless system compared to simple physical cash. What happens to a cashless society when internet/phone connectivity is lost for some reason? In last month alone, several times I ended up not being able to buy my lunch using credit card due to network problems and other issues with the card readers and to go without. Same for Digital wallets like PayTM. Just a few days back, all hell broke lose when PayTM stopped working for a couple of hours. The govt keeps repeating that they are not talking about 100% cashless system, but where is the cash in the first place. I had to go without lunch despite having money in my bank account and holding 2 credit cards and that would not have happened if I had some usable cash for backup.
cashless economy is such a stupid joke. I wonder how people even fall for it. Even country like USA runs with 40% cash. In japan it was a flop. In india where people don't even have banks in villages the PM says go for cashless economy. Dumb is not the PM its the people who falls for these stupid ideas.You develop a nation completely then experiment with cashless economy then its okay. This is just stupid.
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