Tenants not leaving! what to do?

[Aladdin]

We had exactly the same issue around an year back. We gave our house on rent to a friends friend without any paperwork. You see he was a "friend". And after 4 years he stopped giving rent. He told us to take a fixed amount and transfer the house papers to him. Fortunately we had a friend who was a senior police officer. We explained and he said check out your house tomorrow.

OMG, at 11 am there were some men keeping construction material like bricks, cement and what not in our house. They even Broke the tullu pump, window glasses etc. They messed the place like sh!t. Inside Out ! Initially we were looking from outside but after that we took cover in neighborhood. :rofl:

He called us to get all this stopped and we said what are u talking about man? He couldn't complain to police as it was not his house.

We found that our police friend had told a construction business man to forcibly make our house his godown for sometime.

Na baap bada na bhaiya, sabse bada rupaiya. We got our lesson.

It would have been a big headache had we chosen the legal way. Even the police friend didnt suggest it. Our own property becoming our own headache is the last thing we would want.

 

[psynaps3]

Move in with your pet(s).

 

[Emperor]

What is original agreement says? how many months or year you allow them to live on same property. What other clause you had mentioned in Agreement about vacant of same property.

Consult with TRUSTED property agent on same & than proceed with easy way, keep mind cool & think proper way.

 

[chesss]

I have no experience with worldly matters, so won't know the proper procedure to take in this situation. I can just offer movie like advice

maybe you could do something innovative. like bribe some people to annoy them . bribe their neighbours to make loud noises at night or something

Another more filmy approach:
hire some conmen , set them up so they think they can are getting some other house for rent. Use the conmen to pose as property dealers/owners of the house. when they think they have got the other house, they'll move out!

 

[Switch]

If according to the rent agreement the lock in period(or whatsoever it is called) is over then you can send them a legal notice to vacate the premises in next two months. Thats it. After two months if they don't you can ask the court to intervene who in turn will ask the cops help you vacate the premises.

Also if they are not paying rent on regular basis you can send them a notice to vacate the premises in 15 days time right now. The court will again help you in the same.

 

[Switch]

If according to the rent agreement the lock in period(or whatsoever it is called) is over then you can send them a legal notice to vacate the premises in next two months. Thats it. After two months if they don't you can ask the court to intervene who in turn will ask the cops help you vacate the premises.
Also if they are not paying rent on regular basis you can send them a notice to vacate the premises in 15 days time. The court will again help you in the same.

 

[yashvisent]

serve them a notice through court (as per the agreement two months notice to be served)

request the power company to disconnect the electricity, return the deposit and after 2 months on one fine night just lock put your lock on the premises.

and for your safety sake make a police complaint in advance.

in case they break the lock put another, and one your people too shift into that house for staying purpose as it is your property and you have the first right to stay there

Lesson from ghandigiri, get your family shifted into that house and share the house with them and they will leave

 

[MAGNeT]

Legally many ideas will be given here...

ALso aladin idea looks decent but u need to spend money to build those connection....in sense instead of going to dadas....inspector of higher rank may help......and can do same trick of giving it as godown stuff ...

Even legal action their frontier might be tough as being an inspector will give u advantage

Same stuff u can try with local corporater.....or something

Also when we came in our building we were on rent latter my father wished that he wished to buy the place rather than staying on rent......the landlord charged exorbiant price.......But my father agreed...but than he suddenly changed plans and said he wants to give on rent not sell....father said we wont agree.....and said give us 3 months time to decide...but the landlord inorder to build his case used to send every other party to show house as if he is selling to another party....

At any odd times they used to come...

U can try this trick....contact all your local real estate guys to send parties to sell that premise.....Since document is on your name and ull transfer to new party(try it to b some fake with huge politcal connection) they might get a little restless as party......they might sort amicably....(try to b harsh more like munabhai type)..but no goons else u might even loose your property unless its a local business stuff for u to deal with them

Also its better u file a NC b4 doing any harsh action....to be on safer side

 

[sunny27]

have they paid you any deposit money for the flat?

if they have simply deduct the rent from it for the month they fail to pay the rent.

 

[Tech_enthu]

As the tenant is only 2 years old in the property there should be not be a problem, I will suggest the possible scenaris

If he is giving rent in cash then are you issuing reciepts to him? if yes then since when and how old was the last reciept?

if you complain about non payment of rent to the police then he will just deposit the rent in the court and your happiness will be scre*ed, so this is not a very good option.

Have you got some common friends or acquaintances? if yes then maybe they can act as mediators and pressure him to vacate.

have you got connectins? local guys or are you a loner? coz if if you have then it will be easier for he next step.

how many members does he have in his family? genderwise?

how many members are there in your family?

how far can you go with this?

I think he just wants some money and he will vacate if some common people get together from your locality.

answer my questions and I can suggest a way out, I have enough experience in these matters, unfortunately I am not in Bangalore or I would have helped you more.

 

[krishnandu]

He is the local guy there. So is it nor possible to take help of some other local guys and throw them out???

 

[blr_p]

What is original agreement says? how many months or year you allow them to live on same property.

Can salluks answer this ?

Has the lease lapsed or what ?

or has he decided that within the lease period that he doesn't want them anymore and given them notice to leave.

And most important of all is the lease still valid.

There are a lot of laws which are pro tenant and a legal matter usually drags on for 10-20 years. ( this is what has come up on google search, none of this is original, first hand knowledge)

Depends how long they have been staying there, and whether they moved in before or after rent control laws were repealed (mid 90s). If its the latter then its 3 years. Otherwise its an altogether different story.

I think in sallu's case these ppl moved in AFTER these laws were removed. He said they were there only for two years.

If they have been living the Pagdi system, or for more then 20 years. the only way to vacate them is to wait for the building to collapse.

I'm wondering whether that 20 years implies living during the time of rent control act.

Because if they moved in after the rent control act was repealed then living there for any duration, under a lease does not confer any ownership whatsoever.

@salluks -- given they only want 6 more months to find another place, maybe its best to help them find one. I get the impression they said they wont leave because that was the only reason. As opposed to telling you to get lost and they will take over the house.

The best way is to sort it out with them without resorting to any legal/extra legal ways.

Couse this depends on whether you can put up with them for 6 months or however long it takes to find a place, assuming that truly is the reason for them not leaving. Its a fairly std reason given by ppl not to vacate. Ppl have told me in this case that cooperating is cheaper and less stressful than not.

 

[The Sorcerer]

standard rental agreement

Next time, for giving residential or commercial places for rent, be safe with Leave and License agreement.

Good to know info to all for one to ask their lawyers: Reason being in the Lease Agreement, you're technically transferring the ownership to the tenant and that creates an opportunity for the tenant to claim a "right to permanent occupation" when the person occupies the place for a long time whereas in leave and license agreement because technically you're giving a license to occupy the place for a period of atleast 11 months (its always 11 months, don't know why) which gives an option for an extended periodic renewal if both the parties are cool with it.

Its only in leave and license agreement that keeps both the tenant and landloard safe for 3 reasons:

#1. When and if the tenant uses the residential property for commercial uses and/or does any damage/modification to the flat, you have the legal right to claim the deposit.

#2. The property has to be in the condition that is mentioned on the agreement and any problem must be taken care of by the landlord, if not then the tenant either has the right to modify the agreement or even break the agreement and take his deposit back.

#3. If either of the party wants to break the contract, they have to give a 3 months notice. The tenant will get deposit back safe and sound. 3 months is sufficient to find another tenant or another place to live.

==============================================

It takes a little bit of time and money to get the leave and license (for commercial property, you can have leave and license or a "business centre" agreement which are pretty much similar) done, but its worth it and you get piece of mind.

Because of this, there are many cases lying around the court. There are some dalals (even in Chennai where many still follow pagdi system, although its bit less "aggressive" compared to Mumbai) who say no1 follows this, but its all bull. If a tenant creates problem even though one has leave and license agreement, its clear cut case. The case wouldn't take anything more than 6-8 months max.

As for Salluks case, settle it out of court. Speak to them, keep a calm and work it out. Ask what they want and blah blah. When he spoke his mind and you spoke your mind, depending on their demands, agree to them only if they agree for a leave and license agreement if not, then you might have to give them an amount to leave the place. Most likely they might not agree for 11 months agreement because after that you get the right to increase the rental charges. Try for 2 years or 3. In any case, apply all tactics and avoid the legal system as far as going to court with a lease agreement is concerned.

 

[salluks]

If according to the rent agreement the lock in period(or whatsoever it is called) is over then you can send them a legal notice to vacate the premises in next two months. Thats it. After two months if they don't you can ask the court to intervene who in turn will ask the cops help you vacate the premises.

Also if they are not paying rent on regular basis you can send them a notice to vacate the premises in 15 days time right now. The court will again help you in the same.

the court porceeding will take really long, iam not so keen on it!

have they paid you any deposit money for the flat?

if they have simply deduct the rent from it for the month they fail to pay the rent.

yea, they the paid 10 months advance, which is the norm in bangalore, they dont mind paying the rent, but they just dont wanna leave! his only argument is, one of his sons in dubai, who pays the rent, hence it gets delayed everytime!

As the tenant is only 2 years old in the property there should be not be a problem, I will suggest the possible scenaris

If he is giving rent in cash then are you issuing reciepts to him? if yes then since when and how old was the last reciept? - we issue recepts,not them!

if you complain about non payment of rent to the police then he will just deposit the rent in the court and your happiness will be scre*ed, so this is not a very good option.- as said , they dont have a problem with rent, but just dont wanna leave.

Have you got some common friends or acquaintances? if yes then maybe they can act as mediators and pressure him to vacate. - dude i grew up infront of him, me as well as him know the whole area, but i dont wanna go that route

have you got connectins? local guys or are you a loner? coz if if you have then it will be easier for he next step.- this is unnecessary

how far can you go with this? - he says he will "probably" leave in 6 months

I think he just wants some money and he will vacate if some common people get together from your locality. - money is not a problem, but he may not find an equally big place for his larger family(around 10 people in total)

answer my questions and I can suggest a way out, I have enough experience in these matters, unfortunately I am not in Bangalore or I would have helped you more.

He is the local guy there. So is it nor possible to take help of some other local guys and throw them out???

we both are the local guys, so he pretty much knows everybody i know and vise versa, only problem is he's much older than i am, his sons are older than me, so local guys will side with him..

i'll talk to him sweetly tommorrow and sort something out, the big guy is quite decent, his sons are the lames.

btw - he stays in the same place where i stay, my stay at ground floor, he his does at 2nd floor!

@salluks -- given they only want 6 more months to find another place, maybe its best to help them find one. I get the impression they said they wont leave because that was the only reason. As opposed to telling you to get lost and they will take over the house.

The best way is to sort it out with them without resorting to any legal/extra legal ways.

Couse this depends on whether you can put up with them for 6 months or however long it takes to find a place, assuming that truly is the reason for them not leaving. Its a fairly std reason given by ppl not to vacate. Ppl have told me in this case that cooperating is cheaper and less stressful than not.

I guess the only option would be to wait and watch!!

 

[rajan1311]

just gimme their address, ill pee at their doorstep everyday till they quit....
I think its best if you take them to court. So what if it takes long, you may get lucky and it may get wrapped up in a few days...

 

[blr_p]

Next time, for giving residential or commercial places for rent, be safe with Leave and License agreement.

This sounds more the norm for commerical than residential.

Reason being in the Lease Agreement, you're technically transferring the ownership to the tenant and that creates an opportunity for the tenant to claim a "right to permanent occupation" when the person occupies the place for a long time whereas in leave and license agreement because technically you're giving a license to occupy the place for a period of atleast 11 months (its always 11 months, don't know why) which gives an option for an extended periodic renewal if both the parties are cool with it.

There is no such "right ro permananent occupation" after repeal of rent control act AFAIK.

Its 11 months as you don't have to register the lease. If its 12 months or longer it has to be registered by law. Not registering saves the registering fee which is about 15% of the income earned on the total stay the lease is valid for.

Why pay registering costs when the bangalore courts give you less help unlike in mumbai where if you DO register you have recourse ot a special tribunal that will rule within a month.

Its only in leave and license agreement that keeps both the tenant and landloard safe for 3 reasons:
#1. When and if the tenant uses the residential property for commercial uses and/or does any damage/modification to the flat, you have the legal right to claim the deposit.
#2. The property has to be in the condition that is mentioned on the agreement and any problem must be taken care of by the landlord, if not then the tenant either has the right to modify the agreement or even break the agreement and take his deposit back.
#3. If either of the party wants to break the contract, they have to give a 3 months notice. The tenant will get deposit back safe and sound. 3 months is sufficient to find another tenant or another place to live.

If you lease states they cant make any modifications without your permission it comes to the same. A std lease should cover all these 3 cases you mention already.

It takes a little bit of time and money to get the leave and license (for commercial property, you can have leave and license or a "business centre" agreement which are pretty much similar) done, but its worth it and you get piece of mind.

Which is why i think L&L is more appropriate for commerical leases.

Because of this, there are many cases lying around the court. There are some dalals (even in Chennai where many still follow pagdi system, although its bit less "aggressive" compared to Mumbai) who say no1 follows this, but its all bull. If a tenant creates problem even though one has leave and license agreement, its clear cut case. The case wouldn't take anything more than 6-8 months max.

Can you explain what this "pagdi" system is ?

 

[6pack]

If they don't want to leave tell them to sign a new lease agreement with you for double the rent amount you are charging now. That should give them some jitters, and if it does not you get double money every month.

If he agrees for double amount, make the agreement for a year. And if he does not agree, start bringing prospective clients to show the flat every two days or so.

 

[Emperor]

Don't rush to bring the matter to Court. It will give you unnecessary headache, tension & you may be face hardship to concentrate on your daily works too. Not only you but ALL OF YOUR family members were comes under tremendous pressure if you never had any experience with court matters & such steps may make your relation with tenant very bitter & in anger tenant may take OATH NOT TO VACANT YOUR PLACE like JO HOGA WOH DEKHA JAAYEGA.

Be cool, greet tenant every day, discuss with 2-3 days gap, show them other properties near by place to take on rent, offer them help & join them to visit the place for alternate house, show your laachari which push you to ask them to vacant the place. Make them think that you & your family members aren't bad but THE SITUATION.

HTH

 

[The Sorcerer]

@ blr_p: With, respects, love to make a debate about it, but not at somebody else's thread with a genuine problem. This is how my family dealt with our commericial and residential properties- in Mumbai and in Chennai, both being in prime location. Despite with this experience, all I can share is experience, its you/readers who will have to ask about this with their lawyers. Like I said before "Good to know info".

IMHO, if people can't take a hassle of a week or 2 to make sure that their property worth lakhs and crores is safe with them when its given for rent, they are shooting their own leg because if the tenant is smart, he will take advantage of it and it will end up in a very long legal battle and if the court favours him, you have to blame yourself for being a lazy lump of whale blubber. Unfortunately there are cases where people are not aware of it despite hiring the best of lawyers. So I am sharing my experience so that one can ask the legal experts and be aware about it.

And the point is:

There is no such "right to permanent occupation" after repeal of rent control act AFAIK.

There no such right, which is why those words are quoted so that people can understand without explaining much. Like I said, lease agreement technically gives a transfer of ownership to the tenant, therefore the technicality and occupation of a property in a way gives a right to the tenant for occupation, depending on the period of occupation. Its because of this contradiction in the "lease agreement", the court can't take this decision in a matter of months, let alone days.

 

[sunny27]

@ rajan 1311 -- be careful now about peeing on someone's doorstep--people have watched 3 idiots and they know what to do to counter your mutra-visarjan.

@ salluks - bring in the people from your locality and ask them to vacate in 2 months time and make it point to have a witness - who can back up you up when you serve the notice to vacate your premises.

if that fails get the police.