[Politics] AAP wins Delhi election. AK set for CM for the next 5 years.
- Thread starter iPwnz
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Well, if thugs can indeed be "good leaders" then AAP has the required qualifications in full considering that AAP has always fielded exactly that sort of people looking at the number of criminal cases each of them have against them. Extortion, criminal intimidation, blackmail, abduction seem to be the usual fare of cases required to qualify for AAP.
But then that is assuming that they can do anything more than create chaos and anarchy.
dennis_nail
Adept
No point with getting on with my party is better than yours arguments all over again. Every party has its own share of good and bad people. Though I don't support many of the AAP policies, at least let them prove their credentials now by governing properly for next 5 years. With overwhelming majority, they should not have the obstacles (or excuses, depending on which side you are on) to blame on. Delivering on your promises is much more difficult than winning an election (like Modi is finding it now. But of course, Modi will need much more time to deliver given he has to manage the country rather than a small state like Delhi).
blr_p
Skilled
No spin, that's first past the post in action.
If i get 1 lakh votes and you get 1 lakh + 1 then you win. But the vote share is still evenly split. Now consider the real life case across the country, parties can win seats with just 25% vote share or less. To get more is surprising.
Something to do with we want so and so at the centre but somebody else in the state. People knew that BJP did not have what it takes for Delhi. Their last term began in '93. Sushma manged only a few days longer than AK in 98. Then shiela gets three terms why ? no alternative.
Delhi strikes me as a uniquely screwed up place along the lines of Maha.
No revolutionary changes? Come on. Forgetting Civil Rights Movement? The start of feminist movement? A lot of revolution has happened since then.
blr_p
Skilled
I'd credit MLK to the civil rights movement. Hippes came after. The feminists went no where.
And i'm gonna post this before you
MLK was just the face, much like Gandhi here in India. The counterculture movement definitely helped. 'Live and let live.'
I'd say the second wave of feminists accomplished much more than anyone else for gender equality. Countries that haven't addressed this are one of the worst places to live (unless of course you're rich and privileged).
In reddit term, this is just a circlejerk going round and round. Sure no party is perfect, not even the BJP is. In fact i feel that from the result BJP's got bashed up by the people who've had enough with them. If their own voters in their own major constituencies care they would get over 3 seats but AAP got 67/70. You have to ask yourself why and how in the hell did they lose their support and fan base by so much? Even AAP's very own chief AK was surprised by the end result.
And as for the claims of AAP getting donation from "unknown" sources dont get me started. BJP promised to retrieve all the black money before they came to power at the Centre with within a few months (i dont remember the exact number of months which they promised) and how long has it been till now? still no black money. on being asked why Amit Shah or someone else gave a bs excuse on the media "..black money is not so easy to retrieve.." now tell me what if the UPA/Congress was in power and no action had been taken up? The entire BJP/NDA groups will go berserk in the streets. Isnt that hypocrisy?
And lets look at the latest incident in Delhi, 5 Churches attacked in two months what has the PM said about it? Do tell me. As a secular Christian I must admit that I'm really disturbed by this. And i think we all know that PM Modi started his days from RSS a hindu extremist group. The guy is now the PM of India. India is a secular democratic country. Now some groups want to omit the word "Secular." God bless this "secular" country. As for the whole pseudo-secular debate on the web I'll leave it to the people in power. If the PM is for the people, and the people is made up of everyone from all religion then shouldn't he be protecting their rights?
So I'm very relieved that the AAP will form the state govt here. As for their work they barely just got elected, give them some time. When we have given a lot of time to Congress then BJP (Modi is not the first BJP/NDA PM, we also had Vajpayee before him) cant we even give AAP a few months (btw they have 5 years)?
However i'll admit that some promises by the AAP will be very difficult, if not impossible, to fulfill mainly regarding the electricity. The water problem can be managed with a proper management (+public awareness on its proper usage). I pray the poor souls in Dwarka areas get enough water.
and if you still dont trust AAP what can you say about the people who couldnt make them get over 3 seats? The majority apparently trust AAP more than Modi. With regards to the politicians saying that the loss is not a referendum on Modi, I'm just lol'ing.
Wishing AAP the very best. Kejriwal has much to do. I hope he doesn't let us down.
TL;DR- AAP may be a young party, Kejriwal may not be the best leader but hey not even Modi is. I see only hypocrisy when people randomly bash up AAP and defend BJP. Just remember that even though the majority in India are Hindus India is NOT a Hindu country nor do all Hindus support BJP/NDA. If you want to see a developed country without any concern on religion i suggest you move to China.
And as for the claims of AAP getting donation from "unknown" sources dont get me started. BJP promised to retrieve all the black money before they came to power at the Centre with within a few months (i dont remember the exact number of months which they promised) and how long has it been till now? still no black money. on being asked why Amit Shah or someone else gave a bs excuse on the media "..black money is not so easy to retrieve.." now tell me what if the UPA/Congress was in power and no action had been taken up? The entire BJP/NDA groups will go berserk in the streets. Isnt that hypocrisy?
And lets look at the latest incident in Delhi, 5 Churches attacked in two months what has the PM said about it? Do tell me. As a secular Christian I must admit that I'm really disturbed by this. And i think we all know that PM Modi started his days from RSS a hindu extremist group. The guy is now the PM of India. India is a secular democratic country. Now some groups want to omit the word "Secular." God bless this "secular" country. As for the whole pseudo-secular debate on the web I'll leave it to the people in power. If the PM is for the people, and the people is made up of everyone from all religion then shouldn't he be protecting their rights?
So I'm very relieved that the AAP will form the state govt here. As for their work they barely just got elected, give them some time. When we have given a lot of time to Congress then BJP (Modi is not the first BJP/NDA PM, we also had Vajpayee before him) cant we even give AAP a few months (btw they have 5 years)?
However i'll admit that some promises by the AAP will be very difficult, if not impossible, to fulfill mainly regarding the electricity. The water problem can be managed with a proper management (+public awareness on its proper usage). I pray the poor souls in Dwarka areas get enough water.
and if you still dont trust AAP what can you say about the people who couldnt make them get over 3 seats? The majority apparently trust AAP more than Modi. With regards to the politicians saying that the loss is not a referendum on Modi, I'm just lol'ing.
Wishing AAP the very best. Kejriwal has much to do. I hope he doesn't let us down.
well thats what everyone here is eagerly waiting for. if they screw this up they can kiss their boots goodbye. not kidding.
TL;DR- AAP may be a young party, Kejriwal may not be the best leader but hey not even Modi is. I see only hypocrisy when people randomly bash up AAP and defend BJP. Just remember that even though the majority in India are Hindus India is NOT a Hindu country nor do all Hindus support BJP/NDA. If you want to see a developed country without any concern on religion i suggest you move to China.
^There is so much wrong about your post but let me point about some obvious points:
Most of the posts on this thread might be "bashing AAP" (in your opinion, IMO, they are just being cynical about AAP's chances to deliver). There are none which "defend BJP" - unless of course you think posts on Kiran Bedi, ineffective BJP or about media hype on Modi to be "defending BJP" - which they are not, they rather "bash" the ineffective BJP too.
But in your case, you assume that if we are being cynical (or bashing), we are AAP haters and BJP lovers -- why can't we be a BJP hater, neutral party or hell even a Congress supporter?
Internet nowadays doesn't like opinions but rather needs essays. Its like me saying "I like color red", there will be people going oh..but you did not talk about the association of color red with that piece of art which hurt x y z community sentiments or but blue was used in that piece of art so its better. Its like everything has be white or black, there is gray in between. I can appreciate AK's rise but can't dislike his policy to give free electricity or dislike his leadership style? By doing that I am supporting BJP? How? What kind of bullshit is that?
Lastly please stop that "leave the country" rhetoric. Even if it was a "BJP leader" who started it, that is clearly incorrect and has no place in a decent conversation (which I hope you are trying to have on TE, if not twitter and FB is your place to be).
Most of the posts on this thread might be "bashing AAP" (in your opinion, IMO, they are just being cynical about AAP's chances to deliver). There are none which "defend BJP" - unless of course you think posts on Kiran Bedi, ineffective BJP or about media hype on Modi to be "defending BJP" - which they are not, they rather "bash" the ineffective BJP too.
But in your case, you assume that if we are being cynical (or bashing), we are AAP haters and BJP lovers -- why can't we be a BJP hater, neutral party or hell even a Congress supporter?
Internet nowadays doesn't like opinions but rather needs essays. Its like me saying "I like color red", there will be people going oh..but you did not talk about the association of color red with that piece of art which hurt x y z community sentiments or but blue was used in that piece of art so its better. Its like everything has be white or black, there is gray in between. I can appreciate AK's rise but can't dislike his policy to give free electricity or dislike his leadership style? By doing that I am supporting BJP? How? What kind of bullshit is that?
Lastly please stop that "leave the country" rhetoric. Even if it was a "BJP leader" who started it, that is clearly incorrect and has no place in a decent conversation (which I hope you are trying to have on TE, if not twitter and FB is your place to be).
blr_p
Skilled
BJP's vote share has not changed much. Swing voters pushed it the other way.
opportunism.
To speak for any thing that happens in the country means he will get baited easily. Churches are inaninmate objects, what is broken can be repaired or rebuilt. Is life back to normal for the congregations of those churches or not ? if so then this is a forgotten matter.
Like a lot of other nonsense said or done in the last few months. By un-elected outfits purporting to to be much more than they really are.
The last thing Modi wants is another communal rap.
To fight with the RSS is early. But can the the BJP's performance be pinned on the RSS ? if so then he gets stronger and has a reason to push back. The idea is give them enough rope to hang themselves with.
BJP already got all Delhi LS seats. Hoe many RS seats can Delhi provide ? not much. Delhi is a mess better to let some one else sort it out. BJP did not try to win this one.
Its not a referendum on these two. They already had that in Varnasi in May.
Constitution !
..and then there is rhetoric
tkin
Adept
Yeah, I mean the Chinese are excellent people, even while having full freedom and right to practice any religion, they chose not to do so.
Sasuke_Itachi
Adept
Many Chinese people follow religions,just not at all strict about them.Majority follow the teachings of Tao or Confucius who teach how to lead a life,though most say they aren't religion.
lol. Then you think they werent elected because of some bad luck?
^^ Let me tell a story from Panchatantra which is apt here.
BJP and congress are bad and I really don't like either, but AAP is the worst of the lot. They are the culmination of the evil of every political party out there.
This party is filled with criminals. They have always given tickets and fielded candidates regardless of their background as long as they get paid. How is it that they fielded not one but two candidates with close to 400 cases (as per the candidates own election declarations) against them.
They have also used caste and religious sentiments whenever it was convenient for them to get votes. Heck AK even tried to patronise Khap Panchayat's and their lawless actions in hope of winning votes.
Worst of all, not a single person in that party knows jack about governance. Chaos and anarchy are the only things they have been ever capable of achieving.
People claim that they reduced corruption in their last run, but people are deluded about that too. They are themselves corrupt like every other party. Making a few police officers buckle back from bribes is not reducing corruption. They have merely shifted the corruption. In the first place, corruption is not something limited to bribing. There are various forms of corruption and AAP represents the worst form of it. Abusing the power of the masses to grant themselves immunity from all consequences of lawlessness. AAP's stance has always been that what ever they do is right. Only when somebody else involve in the same lawlessness will they call it corruption.
No sane and honest person who knew or saw how AAP people operate will vote for them twice. Maybe some were motivated because there were really little other options to choose considering that Kiran Bedi is just as bad as AK. But at least in the educated masses, like in the past its the tax evaders with delusions of being honest that would have voted for AAP since they share lot of their attitude egoism with those in AAP.
If AK is really honest and sincere as some people try to make him out to be, there are several things he could have done so easily. For instance, why does he accept anonymous donations at all? He is supposedly getting donations of about 60 Lac/day. If I were to run a so called honest party whose only motive is to serve the people, I would not allow anonymous donation of any amount above 50k at the very least. I would ask for PAN number and proof of income source and publish all information. I will also not not use donations from corporates as party funds.
BJP and congress are bad and I really don't like either, but AAP is the worst of the lot. They are the culmination of the evil of every political party out there.
This party is filled with criminals. They have always given tickets and fielded candidates regardless of their background as long as they get paid. How is it that they fielded not one but two candidates with close to 400 cases (as per the candidates own election declarations) against them.
They have also used caste and religious sentiments whenever it was convenient for them to get votes. Heck AK even tried to patronise Khap Panchayat's and their lawless actions in hope of winning votes.
Worst of all, not a single person in that party knows jack about governance. Chaos and anarchy are the only things they have been ever capable of achieving.
People claim that they reduced corruption in their last run, but people are deluded about that too. They are themselves corrupt like every other party. Making a few police officers buckle back from bribes is not reducing corruption. They have merely shifted the corruption. In the first place, corruption is not something limited to bribing. There are various forms of corruption and AAP represents the worst form of it. Abusing the power of the masses to grant themselves immunity from all consequences of lawlessness. AAP's stance has always been that what ever they do is right. Only when somebody else involve in the same lawlessness will they call it corruption.
No sane and honest person who knew or saw how AAP people operate will vote for them twice. Maybe some were motivated because there were really little other options to choose considering that Kiran Bedi is just as bad as AK. But at least in the educated masses, like in the past its the tax evaders with delusions of being honest that would have voted for AAP since they share lot of their attitude egoism with those in AAP.
If AK is really honest and sincere as some people try to make him out to be, there are several things he could have done so easily. For instance, why does he accept anonymous donations at all? He is supposedly getting donations of about 60 Lac/day. If I were to run a so called honest party whose only motive is to serve the people, I would not allow anonymous donation of any amount above 50k at the very least. I would ask for PAN number and proof of income source and publish all information. I will also not not use donations from corporates as party funds.
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blr_p
Skilled
Anonymous donations is because the donors do not want to be penalised if their identity comes to be known by other parties when they come to power. no anonymous donations then your incoming will be reduced.
as for criminals, these people have charge sheets against them but have never been convicted. otherwise they would be barred from contesting like jaya or lalu. Innocent until proven guilty. These types are electable by the people ie charismatic and are self funding so any party will take them.
don't know why people slam bedi, my impression is that she is a pretty straight talker. A loose canon which maybe hit a glass ceiling sooner than others.
As for reducing corruption, then you have to find alternate funding. if you can get that then you can claim it was reduced in this or that. If you legalise 'corruption' like in the west then it does not measured. but people in the west whose countries score high on transparency international also make similar complaints of corrupt govts too.
as for criminals, these people have charge sheets against them but have never been convicted. otherwise they would be barred from contesting like jaya or lalu. Innocent until proven guilty. These types are electable by the people ie charismatic and are self funding so any party will take them.
don't know why people slam bedi, my impression is that she is a pretty straight talker. A loose canon which maybe hit a glass ceiling sooner than others.
As for reducing corruption, then you have to find alternate funding. if you can get that then you can claim it was reduced in this or that. If you legalise 'corruption' like in the west then it does not measured. but people in the west whose countries score high on transparency international also make similar complaints of corrupt govts too.
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Party Monger
Skilled
Wow you're as stupid as you are ignorant. Go protest in front of the parliament and see how many cases they slap against you. Do it a few times, you would break that guy's record.
What do you even know about Panchayats? Do you know how difficult it is to administer hundreds of villages? There is no alternative to Panchayats. Anything else will be the same thing in a different name. He said they needed to be upgraded and sensitized. Please understand, its not just one stupid Khappanchayat leader that thinks chowmein is bad its majority of the village, and like AK said they need to be sensitized and education is the only way to uplift these parts.
How many political parties have you run? Will you give them the money they need, more importantly, CAN YOU? The law doesnt allow anon donations above 20k. IF that anon money is donated, its taxed at full rate. Just FYI. You cant stoop someone from donating, that would be throwing the axe on your own foot. And when you need the money for a good purpose no one gives a shit where it comes from. They have said clearly, there will be no quid-pro-quo for the donations. Now why do you care after all this?
I spent 3 hours in the BSNL office today just to get the plan changed and get the sign of an officer who was too lazy to be in his office. Had this been under AAP, that bas*ard would have been in his office out of fear if nothing else. The Narendra Modi govt doesnt give a ****, neither of the previous govts did. This is your only hope. Better enable them, instead of b**ching about them.
tkin
Adept
Maybe the first few months, give it one year and that guy will just behave as he is doing now, government jobs mean security and safety due to the unions. My relative works in BSNL, here the line men do not follow the orders of the higher ups. Hell it took close to 3 weeks to get our lines fixed. Any time any higher officer tell the line men to go to work they just point towards their union banner. They do not care. They work as they please. This attitude won't change. Even Kejriwal won't dare to go up against these unions, I can bet on that. So overall things won't change much, apart from bribes may be which frankly does not affect the middleclass much.
Party Monger
Skilled
Oh but you see its not as hard as you say. Once he starts dismissing people, the rest will fall in line. They will want to talk and no-one can justify not working. The reason they can do it now is cause the people ordering them are the same. Let them take the union route, he will start hiring for positions, once that happens either they get effed or they come to their senses. Its very simple, either they step up or step down. There is no middle path here.
blr_p
Skilled
Unless you can tell me otherwise i don't think we will get to see AAP working with panchayats anytime soon. For now they're an urban party and that in itself means they could have pull in other cities. These mohalla sabhas are the long range plan. If successful in the city they will move into villages. They'd need to up their cadres big time to counter their competitors. And that takes funding.
Village is where the politics gets done. City is where the money is made. 70-30 split rural-urban. That is the country average its different in other states with some rapidly urbanising than the national average. This is why cities tend to get less voting as the people think the politics does not really mean anything to them. AAP exploited this niche.