User Review Flac vs Premium streaming services (Alac, Spotify etc)

(I am just sharing a smallish observation of mine here and would love all you great guys to share your views with respect to the kind of equipment you own, I don't wish to deny the so called prevalent audiophile facts, but sharing my chawanni, so please don't get offended)

Hi
A few of the usual suspects must have seen me asking and sharing a few audio related queries etc..
I am not an audiophile (don't really believe in term), but I like to listen to music (all kinds really) as long as it sounds good.
I am a budget freak, so I try to do stuff with the lowest possible budget if I can...
After arranging a pretty simple setup of :

Fosi audio BT20A PRO bluetooth CLASS D amplifier with Tpa3255 chip (300wx2) (don't use its bluetooth ever)
sony hifi system speakers (have 4 pairs now)
Google chrimecast audio,
A lg dvd player to play my cds (once s while),
and
A few (300gb till now and bloating) flac files.
Apple music and Spotify (both premium shared subscriptions)

I am listening to all kinds of music..
In last few days I tried to compare streaming of flac files stored on my lg g8x thinq, to chromecast audio and fosi..
I then compared the same song with highest quality streamed via similar setup from apple music ans Spotify.

I found that proper hi resolution flac files sound noticeably better than the other two..(on my simple setup)
The sound is more wide, distinguishly clear, more sweeter and suits my ears more than the subscription streams... The sound experience it seems is more frontal despite being wider (could be the acoustics as they are shitty at my end)
I also noticed (though it's debatable and I am yet to do more comparasions) that Spotify sounds a tad better than Apple... Yes I know apple pushes so called lossless Alac but that's only via wired connections, which I don't use atm..

I have been experimenting with a few if MJ's songs and I was surprised how much I have started to appreciate his compositions after I am able to listen to them in hi resolution, though I have been a fan always... (I have a few of MJ's audio Cds as well but they are buried so deep in storage that I can't even try, {wife would just freak out seeing me rummaging through the stored stuff, she had intentionally buried my stuff at the back, at the bottom }, otherwise I would have loved to do a comparison with cd too but then flac are lossless copies, or that's what is said.)

I also listened to a lot of live Ghulam Ali, Mehdi Hassan, Lakshmi Shankar, Shobha Gurtu, and found that with such renditions there is not much of a difference (obviously) but somehow the cds sounded better.. (again yet to do a detailed demo of these files across all streams, partly coz I don't have audio Cds of the many tracks ans performances)

To me this makes me believe that streaming services, which have over taken whole of audio scenario all over the world are actually pushing us to spend much more in equipments to get better audio that one can actually appreciate if he likes to liztne to music with enough clarity (using a general term coz I Beleive ones who love to listen to music do actually like it to be clear and good enough that's sweet on their auditory apparatus )

Although its kind of selfish to use flac files(for obvious reasons wrt to their soutce) , but they can sound much better with below average or extremely budget quality equipments...


All this again takes me back to the fact that there is nothing out there now for a simple average listener to enjoy their music at the level of their home like we used to till 10, 15vyears back..
One could get a hifi system with all in one capabilities from as low as 8 to 10k onwards.. But now there is nothing, only the bloody party dabbas... Or you have to be so called audiophile with deep pockets and an unending urge to refine your equipment to enjoy good music with good resolution.


After sending personal messages to a few of the good guys over here and at hifivision I am trying to see if I should buy
a wiim pro / pro plus (multi option network, wifi, bluetooth streamer cum dac)
Or
Should rather get the SMSL SU-1 (pure dac with latest arcm chip that's there in wiim pro plus) and couple it with my chromecast audio..

DAC is the first thing that I need to add to my chain to further deepen the experience.. Up until now I have been dependent on the DAC properties of chromecast audio which has served me well.
After that as @Black_Hawk has been suggesting I ll try to look for a speaker pair (nit soon though).. But my intention is to do everything on a budget...

I ll keep you guys posted and would love to hear your opinion

 

[Tarantula]

One could get a hifi system with all in one capabilities from as low as 8 to 10k onwards.

Their features are now incorporated into the speaker's bodies. You can purchase a wide variety of speakers that can play music over Bluetooth, from a USB pen drive, from an auxiliary input and from S/PDIF sources.

 

[ishanjain28]

flac/aiff/alac or straight up wav is just so much better if you like listening to post rock music, it's not even close(i use it with er2se / samsung buds pro 2 / hd 600). bandcamp has been a godsend for this reason

 

[bobbyprajan]

sony hifi system speakers (have 4 pairs now)

Consider upgrading the speakers first as the Chromecast Audio is a decent DAC and the Fosi Audio BT20A is good enough for an entry level amplifier

In an audio chain the speakers matters the most. Get good speakers considering your room and placement restrictions

Dont fall for the latest and greatest in audio, it is harmful for your purse. Listening pleasure is subjective and what works for somebody else might not work for you.

The pursuit of perfect audio never ends and the law of diminishing returns apply

 

[JMak]

^ not at all planning to upgrade speakers for the time being as I am pretty happy with my setup and speajers sound just about what I like.. Coupled with flac files, chromecast audio and fosi bt20a pro.

 

[bobbyprajan]

The first post said you were considering upgrade of DAC. I have been through few upgrade cycles, which taught me a few things. Shared them thinking that it might be useful for making the right decisions

I have 3 entry level DACs other than Chromecast audio and there is no night and day difference between them. I don't have a highly resolving chain but they are at par or slightly better than what you have. All the best !!

 

[JMak]

The first post said you were considering upgrade of DAC. I have been through few upgrade cycles, which taught me a few things. Shared them thinking that it might be useful for making the right decisions

I have 3 entry level DACs other than Chromecast audio and there is no night and day difference between them. I don't have a highly resolving chain but they are at par or slightly better than what you have. All the best !!

Indeed, exactly what I was thinking, hence didn't buy the wiim pro or the smsl su1 coz chromecast audio in itself is performing pretty well for my needs..
Thanks for the inputs

 

[nick.knack91011]

flac/aiff/alac or straight up wav is just so much better if you like listening to post rock music, it's not even close(i use it with er2se / samsung buds pro 2 / hd 600). bandcamp has been a godsend for this reason

Depends , apple music ( which is lossless ) or even Deezer on my iPhone se gen 1 ( which has a jack ) or even on an newer one with apple dongle sounds on par to me with flacs / alacs as long as connection is wired obviously.

Problem is twofold here most streaming services don't offer lossless options including Spotify Saavn etc and on top Android mixer does not output bitperfect music for streaming services which basically means it's downsampled unless you are playing flacs off the sd card. I think Chromecast has similar issues I think.

As much as I am a fan of flacs and what not , in the end the process of downloading files arranging making collection is too cumbersome even for an enthusiast let alone a normal person and hence why streaming services are becoming more and more ubiquitous .

Again don't get me wrong I am also in the flacs camp but I do think it's not necessarily streaming services that's the problem it's the ecosystem as well . Deezer and apple music in right setup sound on par to me mostly except sound signature is slightly different probably. And even then honestly most people can't ab test reliably and tell difference between even a well encoded 256kbps MP3 and lossless so ultimately it makes sense why streaming services are popular .

 

[JMak]

Guys I am having a strange issue while streaming my flac files over the network via my archer c7 connected ext hdd..

There are a few folders, the files from which just don't sound good enough.. I have tested them they are hi resolution and work well otherwise if I listen to them on phone or PC.. But upon streaming via Upnp /dlna through VLC they sound so muffled and low quliaty..

(just to refresh : I have stored flac files on an ext hdd and connected it via USB port of my archer c7 router.. Accessing the hdd via Vlc player installed on my android phone as a network drive and then streaming the music to my Google chromecast audio)

For example the invincible album from MJ just doesn't go down well at all.. Could it be the bit rate???
I burned the flac files using anyburn to make an audio cd and it works great...

There are other (very few may be a couple more folders) which sound muffled...
They are older recordings of Ali Akbar Khan...

Tried shortening titles ans file names, re-downloaded and what not... Still no success.

 

[booo]

I recently took my hd 6xx out of storage as I wanted to setup my work desktop with good music. Originally i was playing music directly from MacBook but decided to get a smsl dl200 and a balanced cable. now i am really enjoying the high resolution music. Even my Dolby Atmos visio elevate doesn’t sound as good as the sennheisers. Btw, all music is Apple Music subscription so it is always lossless and sometimes high resolution.

 

[jayanttyagi]

Apple music is not always lossless unless you choose the option and not all albums and songs are available.

 

[nick.knack91011]

Apple music is not always lossless unless you choose the option and not all albums and songs are available.

Most popular stuff you will find is available lossless on Apple and lossless catalog is ever increasing, and you can get deezer etc services as we'll to have wider options of lossless stuff.

 

[JMak]

@Black_Hawk
@blr_p
@greenhorn

Was wondering if you guys could shed some light on what's the maximum bitrate that chromecast audio or dlna created through an archer c7 router's usb port are able to handle.

I am seeing a few flac files that have very nigh botrtae or size aren't rendered in hifi at all by my setup they are just 1 % of my collection..

Was going to decompress and reduce the size and bitrtae of them so that they can sound good.. Coz atm they are sounding like a 128kbps mp3 files only when infact they are very high quality..

Example is the whole Invincible album of MJ in flac and a few high quliaty Indian classical live recordings..

Edit
Just checked blood on the dance floor and it is also sounding utterly muffled


EDIT 2 : 18:50IST

So i converted the files to standard vbr mp3, 320mp3, 16/44.1 flac and 24/48 flac..
Seems like the server or the setup wasn't able to handle the amount if data from a 24/96 flac file....

From among all the conversions 24/48 seemed a good trade off and my setup is able to handle that pretty well...

One more thing - I am not against smaller file size provided one has a robust system that can fine tune ans amplify a mp3 for listening pleasure (stull it can't create the lost data), but for me, if anyone feels 320kbps mp3 is cd quality then I am sorry, as for me it is not, may be its my inexpensive simple/humble setup but flac and that too with proper bit depth and sampling frequency (which it can handle) are the ones I am able to enjoy... Unless I am missing something or there is any hidden reason. I can say my chain of these simple audio equipments can produce good enough sound only with proper flac files..

Stull I am exploring all the options and will experiment with few audio encoding apps and their settings for 320kbps mp3 conversion...


Updated my reply after doing some encodings of the og file

 

[shivam1321]

So, I'll add my two cents here as I've been using Apple Music, Amazon Prime, Spotify, and YouTube Music. Earphones: SoundCore Liberty 4 NC and Tin T2. Device: iPhone 13 and OnePlus 11R
Wirelessly: Spotify, Apple, Amazon, YT Music. Even when I set high-quality YouTube music, it's still muddy while Amazon feels like LQ the majority of the time. Even with Loseless on Apple Music, Spotify is still more "clear" so don't know whether my ears or my device.
Wired: It's almost the same Rank with Apple and Spotify neck to neck. The weird thing is, Apple Music is way better on my OP11R wired compared to using is wired iPhone (both using Apple adapters) which is funny but working for me.

Now, if we are talking about local files, a proper WAV or LDAC file is way clearer and has better audio separation (though subtle but noticeable) and the music comes "alive". However, finding the "real" files is a pain as most of the time, they are upscaled and not even properly.
Still, I feel that instead of enjoying the music, I was doing an audio engineer job so I started using these services and can somewhat enjoy like the good old days but sometimes, the lag/hiss/muddiness reminds me of the limitations.

 

[JMak]

So, I'll add my two cents here as I've been using Apple Music, Amazon Prime, Spotify, and YouTube Music. Earphones: SoundCore Liberty 4 NC and Tin T2. Device: iPhone 13 and OnePlus 11R
Wirelessly: Spotify, Apple, Amazon, YT Music. Even when I set high-quality YouTube music, it's still muddy while Amazon feels like LQ the majority of the time. Even with Loseless on Apple Music, Spotify is still more "clear" so don't know whether my ears or my device.
Wired: It's almost the same Rank with Apple and Spotify neck to neck. The weird thing is, Apple Music is way better on my OP11R wired compared to using is wired iPhone (both using Apple adapters) which is funny but working for me.

Now, if we are talking about local files, a proper WAV or LDAC file is way clearer and has better audio separation (though subtle but noticeable) and the music comes "alive". However, finding the "real" files is a pain as most of the time, they are upscaled and not even properly.
Still, I feel that instead of enjoying the music, I was doing an audio engineer job so I started using these services and can somewhat enjoy like the good old days but sometimes, the lag/hiss/muddiness reminds me of the limitations.

Well, exactly my point...
And I believe LDAC is a bluetooth transfer codec by Sony, I don't think it's a file type..
I have downloaded very many flac files from a few credible torrents, as well as converted a lot of my cds to flac.. And i can say more than 90 percent perform as expected, that is they sound very nice, the way I like.
One important thing I noticed is my setup can't handle 24/96 flac files which are so called high resolution hence I have to convert them either to 16/44.1 or 24/48 and they sound great.

Now from among all streaming services I have found the algorithm that Spotify implements makes the music sound tad better than others.. As far as downloading them and streaming via WiFi goes..
I have even downloaded a Playlist of mine through a third party site in 320kbps quality and streamed it from the USB port of my archer c7 to my Google chromecast audio and from that to my fosi amp and it sounds nice..
I have even burned the Playlist to make a mp3 cd and it sounds very crisp in my car.. (but again my pioneer cd player is just awesome)


One more thing I would like to suggest ( I am sure you are already aware), do place the speakers and listen by sitting at a place that sounds best... Believe me it matters a lot...

 

[shivam1321]

Haha, Yes, I kind of mistyped as wanted to type FLAC

Forgot to mention that I have Fiio Q1 but I'm kind of too lazy to use it every day. However, if the format is proper, 96kHz sounds fantastic. I have Rasputin in DSF format and it's just bliss!

Yes, I want to set up a 7.1 old-school home theatre (especially for gaming but music as well) but space is the issue so till then, IEMs and Headphones will have to do.

 

[calvin1719]

Seems like the server or the setup wasn't able to handle the amount if data from a 24/96 flac file....

You said they play fine on your PC. Do you mean a local copy on your PC or you're streaming it via UPNP on your PC and playing it?

Sounds like either the DLNA server or VLC is downsampling it but doing a bad job, not that the setup cannot handle the amount of data per se.

Android VLC I've seen has very few options for control of stuff. I prefer to use jellyfin these days.

 

[JMak]

You said they play fine on your PC. Do you mean a local copy on your PC or you're streaming it via UPNP on your PC and playing it?

Sounds like either the DLNA server or VLC is downsampling it but doing a bad job, not that the setup cannot handle the amount of data per se.

Android VLC I've seen has very few options for control of stuff. I prefer to use jellyfin these days.

Hey bud, waassup?
Well I don't stream using pc.. I am streaming my stuff stored on an ext hdd by connecting it to my archer c7.. So it's UPNP..
24/96 sounds muffled but anything lower, like 16/44 or 24/48 all sound great
Yes

 

[KA_20]

So, I'll add my two cents here as I've been using Apple Music, Amazon Prime, Spotify, and YouTube Music. Earphones: SoundCore Liberty 4 NC and Tin T2. Device: iPhone 13 and OnePlus 11R
Wirelessly: Spotify, Apple, Amazon, YT Music. Even when I set high-quality YouTube music, it's still muddy while Amazon feels like LQ the majority of the time. Even with Loseless on Apple Music, Spotify is still more "clear" so don't know whether my ears or my device.
Wired: It's almost the same Rank with Apple and Spotify neck to neck. The weird thing is, Apple Music is way better on my OP11R wired compared to using is wired iPhone (both using Apple adapters) which is funny but working for me.

Now, if we are talking about local files, a proper WAV or LDAC file is way clearer and has better audio separation (though subtle but noticeable) and the music comes "alive". However, finding the "real" files is a pain as most of the time, they are upscaled and not even properly.
Still, I feel that instead of enjoying the music, I was doing an audio engineer job so I started using these services and can somewhat enjoy like the good old days but sometimes, the lag/hiss/muddiness reminds me of the limitations.

Spotify sounds clearer than Apple because spotify songs are louder than Apple music. Spotify, Amazon and YT normalizes at -14LUFS, Apple at -16LUFS.

 

[SirVer]

This may be a controversial thing to suggest in this thread, but to everyone saying they can hear the difference between FLAC/ALAC/WAV and 256/320kbps AAC/MP3: have you ever done a blind ABX test? This one here, for example - I don't think I've ever seen anyone pass it, and this includes people who previously insisted they could tell the difference.

I especially don't understand the idea that lossless is better for lower end setups - the general consensus amongst the audiophile community (at least AFAIK) is that the opposite is true: lossless is useless if you don't have the equipment capable of actually reproducing those minute differences.