DSL Modem Router for 10k?

[indy1811]

Guys,

What's the best possible DSL Modem router i could buy for 10k?

Main requirement: Range - will have to cover around 2000+ sqft with 3-4 walls in between.

I already have a Dlink 2750U which has served me well till now but won't buffer HD videos to the other end of the house.

Devices it will be used with are PS3, Android phone, Ipad, Macbook, Dell Laptop, etc.

I've currently shortlisted the Asus DSL-N55U and the Netgear DGND4000. Are there any better ones in this range?

Any good deals i should go for? Please post your suggestions.

P.S. Not open to having a modem and router separately. Trying to reduce the clutter already on my desktop.

 

[blr_p]

Main requirement: Range - will have to cover around 2000+ sqft with 3-4 walls in between.

Are you able to reposition the existing router in the middle which will reduce your 3-4 walls to 1-2 walls.

I already have a Dlink 2750U which has served me well till now but won't buffer HD videos to the other end of the house.

What is the filesize of the HD videos you are streaming ?

Devices it will be used with are PS3, Android phone, Ipad, Macbook, Dell Laptop, etc.

Only the macbook & dell laptop will be able to take advantage of your existing N300 d-link router. How is the play back performance with these two ?

The rest will work at half the speed N150 and the PS3 at g (?). These devices will not work faster than present (assuming within range) even if you get a better router. If you cannot get these devices to play your HD videos through one wall then your HD files are too big. You will have to re-encode them.

P.S. Not open to having a modem and router separately. Trying to reduce the clutter already on my desktop.

Selection is much larger with router only models and they have more options.
Modems give out earlier than routers. Why replace the entire unit.

What other reasons besides clutter do you have to go for an all-in-one.

 

[indy1811]

Are you able to reposition the existing router in the middle which will reduce your 3-4 walls to 1-2 walls.


What is the filesize of the HD videos you are streaming ?


Only the macbook & dell laptop will be able to take advantage of your existing N300 d-link router. How is the play back performance with these two ?

The rest will work at half the speed N150 and the PS3 at g (?). These devices will not work faster than present (assuming within range) even if you get a better router. If you cannot get these devices to play your HD videos through one wall then your HD files are too big. You will have to re-encode them.


Selection is much larger with router only models and they have more options.
Modems give out earlier than routers. Why replace the entire unit.

What other reasons besides clutter do you have to go for an all-in-one.

@blr_p

Was hoping you would post here ;-)

Are you able to reposition the existing router in the middle which will reduce your 3-4 walls to 1-2 walls.
Nope, there is a kitchen in between the bedroom where the DSL connection is and the hall where most of the gadgets will be used. That is a distance of around 55 feet between the router and the devices. My current DSL-2750U gives only a single bar at the furthest part of my house (where the PS3 is...)

What is the filesize of the HD videos you are streaming ?
Most of them are between 4-10GB. The bitrate is around 6MBps. Will be upgrading to the PS4 when it comes out. Also, the Samsung 8 series TV also supports DLNA. Would like something for that as well.

What other reasons besides clutter do you have to go for an all-in-one.
Lack of plug points, general convenience.

Modems give out earlier than routers. Why replace the entire unit.
Most of them come with 3 years warranty so, i should be covered there i guess...

Thanks for the reply.[DOUBLEPOST=1371318887][/DOUBLEPOST]Adding this as well to the shortlist:

https://www.linksys.com/en-eu/products/gateways/X3500

 

[blr_p]

Are you able to reposition the existing router in the middle which will reduce your 3-4 walls to 1-2 walls.
Nope, there is a kitchen in between the bedroom where the DSL connection is and the hall where most of the gadgets will be used. That is a distance of around 55 feet between the router and the devices. My current DSL-2750U gives only a single bar at the furthest part of my house (where the PS3 is...)

| (hall with gadgets)..............|.................(kitchen)................|...........(bedroom with DSL)........|

I count two walls, how thick are they ? (6 or 11 inches). 55 feet is going to be problematic. I think you can get only two more bars with a better router.

Can you reroute that DSL connection into your hall maybe the ISP can help.

If not how feasible is it to run an ethernet cable from the bedroom to the hall. Punch holes through the wall.

What is the filesize of the HD videos you are streaming ?
Most of them are between 4-10GB. The bitrate is around 6MBps. Will be upgrading to the PS4 when it comes out. Also, the Samsung 8 series TV also supports DLNA. Would like something for that as well.

You need a signal that delivers a throughput between 20-40Mbs.

You did not say which devices you will be using as clients to watch your movies ? Is it just ps3 and the samsung 8 ?

Does the series 8 have built-in wifi or do you need an adapter for it.

 

[indy1811]

Pardon the shitty drawing, but here's the layout:

The walls are 11 inches or thereabouts...

No, DSL can't be rerouted. There is a balcony outside my room where all the wires like telephone, DSL, etc are bunched together..moving it to the hall would mean, 1. Wires dangling there. 2. I'd need a wireless dongle or PCI card to access internet on my desktop. 3. Mom wouldn't want anything in the living room. That rules out running an ethernet cable through the walls.

Briefly thought about investing in powerline adapters but the wiring is so screwed up in my house, the UPS fellows who came to install the UPS at our home asked us to change the wiring because apparently AEH and lighting were on the same line. This is in the process of being fixed but wouldn't solve my problem of having multiple devices using the internet in the living room.

Movies will mostly be watched using the TV's inbuilt media player. The PS3 as u rightly posted only supports G speeds so can't use that to play high bit rate files. Would also like to stream photos on the PS3.

Yes, the series 8 has inbuilt WIFI, no adapter required.

 

[blr_p]

How far is A in feet ?

See the little rectangle in the top right of your bedroom, could you place the router on a shelf up there.

 

[indy1811]

@blr_p

There are no shelves in my bedroom. The rectangle you've marked is where the door to my room is...The modem is currently placed diagonally opposite to where you've drawn the rectangle.

A is around 40 feet. Add another 10-15 feet and that's where the modem is currently placed.

Are you saying none of the modem routers in the market would be able to get a decent signal to my living room?

 

[max_demon]

I have similar home layout and I too keep the router in that room. I'm using AC-66U ASUS for streaming and wifi, I get fair signal of 5 GHz till the living room (30% strength) but 5GHz drops when I am outside home. only 2.4 Ghz at 40% strength.
I have 2 antennas pointed to that direction and one antenna pointed towards top. File transfer speeds are good

 

[blr_p]

There are no shelves in my bedroom. The rectangle you've marked is where the door to my room is...The modem is currently placed diagonally opposite to where you've drawn the rectangle.

If you could put up a small shelf above the door to hold the router or attach the router to the wall then that will be better than sticking the router 15 feet away in the opposite direction. It means a stronger signal where you want it with fewer walls to attenuate.

There won't be any clutter, the modem will be on your desk as is, then you will run an ethernet cable along the sides of the wall up to the router at the other end. Pretty much invisible.

So is this possible ? may be necessary if the signal is not strong enough.

A is around 40 feet. Add another 10-15 feet and that's where the modem is currently placed.

Upto 30 feet will give you a good signal with 2.4Ghz, doubling that distance plus adding 11 inch walls in between will weaken the signal. Given the distance involved here every little bit helps.

Are you saying none of the modem routers in the market would be able to get a decent signal to my living room?

There are no benchmarks for modem routers only routers. So without benchmarks its difficult to tell you what to expect as the wifi radio chips used for modem routers are different to those used in router only models.

Decent signal means getting what you want to work, taking into account the distance, load, and transmission power of the model. Then it requires examining the client end and doing the same. Take your samsung series 8 tv. I cannot tell if its a N150 or N300 client. This matters. Do you see a link speed at all displayed in the interface in the TV as this would give some indication. Does your PS3 indicate a link speed at all or is it just bars. Bars are meaningless because it does not tell you what speed you're getting. Second, neither the tv nor the ps3 has any external antennas nor allows you to attach any, so the wifi signals they receive will be weak, they are designed for internet browsing not watching HD movies. However this can be augmented with a bridge that has antennas and will give you a better signal. A bridge is an extra router, think of it as a super wifi-adapter that hooks up to the ethernet ports of both devices.

For illustrative purposes, Here are a couple of benchmarks to give you an idea. Do you see how the signal falls between locations D & F. The Belkin would be better than the cisco at those distances. Am not in a position to recommend any models as yet.

Location A: AP and wireless client in same room, approximately 6 feet apart.

Location B: Client in room on same level, approximately 45 feet away from AP.
Two sheetrock walls between AP and Client.

Location C: Client in upper level, approximately 25 feet away (direct path) from AP.

One wood floor, sheetrock ceiling, no walls between AP and Client.

Location D: Client in upper level, approximately 35 feet away (direct path) from AP.
One wood floor, one lower level sheetrock wall, sheetrock ceiling between AP and Client.

Location E: Client on upper level, approximately 55 feet away (direct path) from AP.
Two to three interior walls, one wood floor, one sheetrock ceiling and stainless-steel refrigerator between AP and Client.

Location F: Client on upper level, approximately 65 feet away (direct path) from AP.
Four to five interior walls, one wood floor, one sheetrock ceiling between AP and Client.

Do you see how throughput drops as barriers come in the way and distance grows. Basically your signal is going to be somewhere between D & F or 50-10Mbs. That is provided you have a N300 client otherwise it will be 30-5Mbs.

I said you need 30-40Mbs to have a decent signal if you want to watch anything above 4GB otherwise 20Mbs will just about make it.

You want to view photos, well if you expect those photos to appear within a second here is the throughput you require depending on the filesize of the photos..
1MB - 8Mbs
2MB - 16Mbs
3MB - 24Mbs
4MB - 32Mbs

and so on otherwise it will lag. How big are your photos.

A simple question with a non trivial answer

 

[blr_p]

I have similar home layout and I too keep the router in that room. I'm using AC-66U ASUS for streaming and wifi, I get fair signal of 5 GHz till the living room (30% strength) but 5GHz drops when I am outside home. only 2.4 Ghz at 40% strength.
I have 2 antennas pointed to that direction and one antenna pointed towards top. File transfer speeds are good

AC will give better throughput with an AC client. Pricey right now.

Since OP's clients are N, an AC bridge will be required. Not sure of any models that can do this as yet.

The N throughput of your router is pretty close to the benchmark posted in my previous post.

Note that i said throughput, other 'features' etc are not there with cheaper models.

 

[max_demon]

my clients are N only.. and streams a 7Mbps HD movie easily.. ac is reserved for future use. Will be getting adapters/laptops with inbuilt ac when they will come in market

 

[blr_p]

What clients are you using ? What link rates do they get ?

7Mbs means a peak in the 20-30Mbs which suggests N150 or since the clients are far away that is all you can get.

AC66U is 16k odd, his budget is 10k.

 

[max_demon]

I mean to say.. that the movie encoded is of 7Mbps the Throughput I get is way higher than this. and as I'm using in "Only N" mode so the thoroughput should be simmilar with N66U of ASUS

 

[indy1811]

@blr_p,@max_demon

That's some fantastic info guys. Now to answer all your questions:

If you could put up a small shelf above the door to hold the router or attach the router to the wall then that will be better than sticking the router 15 feet away in the opposite direction. It means a stronger signal where you want it with fewer walls to attenuate.

There won't be any clutter, the modem will be on your desk as is, then you will run an ethernet cable along the sides of the wall up to the router at the other end. Pretty much invisible.

So is this possible ? may be necessary if the signal is not strong enough.

Same problem again, no power outlet close by. Getting one installed will mean drilling holes, masonry work etc. which i'm pretty sure my mom wouldn't allow.
For the moment, let's consider that there is no chance of changing the location of the modem.

How big are your photos.

Between 2-4MB in size.

Forget the PS3 for now. It's anyway EOL. Will upgrade to the PS4 as soon as it comes out. I installed WIFI analyzer on my phone. I get between 75-85dBm near my TV with my Dlink 2750U.

Looks like i will have to go the bridge way like you said @blr_p. Know anybody who has tried powerline in India? Does it work?

 

[dinjo]

My vote for Asus DSL 55U review here http://www.techenclave.com/community/threads/asus-dsl-n55u.147390/

 

[blr_p]

Same problem again, no power outlet close by. Getting one installed will mean drilling holes, masonry work etc. which i'm pretty sure my mom wouldn't allow.

Power outlet nearby isn't needed. The power to the router is rectified to DC so all you have to do (in theory) is extend the wire that comes out of the power adapter upto the shelf. There will be 2 wires, ethernet and this power cable. The only holes required will be to mount the shelf or failing that hang the router from a nail above your door. A shelf would be neater.

For the moment, let's consider that there is no chance of changing the location of the modem.

Think of it as a contingency. If things do not work out to your expectations then there is a way to increase performance if required.

Between 2-4MB in size.

Right so you need a minimum of 30Mbs to have acceptable performance.

Forget the PS3 for now. It's anyway EOL. Will upgrade to the PS4 as soon as it comes out. I installed WIFI analyzer on my phone. I get between 75-85dBm near my TV with my Dlink 2750U.

Looks like i will have to go the bridge way like you said

PS4 will be marginally better, with a bridge you can wifi enable anything that has an ethernet connection. As far as the devices are concerned they think they are on an ethernet connection. Think of the bridge as a second contingency. You may or may not need it.

The signal you want to get is 60-70dBm. 50-60dBm would be ideal but i think that will be difficult to achieve in your case.

How about an experiment to gauge the effectiveness of the shelf-above-the door theory. Simple range finding experiment. You have measured the signal with the router where it is presently located . So to see if there is any improvement, get a power extension cord and place the router above your door. Just turn it on and let the wifi start, the dsl cable isn't required, hopefully your d-link will turn on its radio and you will get a signal that can be measured by wi-fi analyser.

This will tell us how much of an improvement, a change of router position will provide if the router were placed 15 feet closer to the hall. Can you do that and report the readings you see.

Know anybody who has tried powerline in India? Does it work?

geekyranjit on youtube has reviewed a tp-link model in his house in hyderabad.

The model i had in mind is by linksys (benchmark) as SNB reviewed, presumably because its better than the tp-link.

Here are descriptions of the three test locations:

• Location A: The two adapters under test are plugged into the same wall outlet or two outlets in the same outlet strip.
• Location C: One adapter in Location A outlet. Second adapter in living room, one floor up and middle of home
• Location E: One adapter in Location A outlet. Outlet in kitchen, one floor up and opposite end of home

The problem with powerline is its difficult to tell what the throughput will be like. If it works it would be the ideal solution and quite simple, just plug and play, within your budget (~Rs.5-6k) and just a dumb switch needed to hook up your tv & ps3-4. That is for a '200mbs' pair of adapters. If you get 40-50Mbs then that's good. There are '500mbs' models too but not seen any in India, these would increase throughput by 50% further.

Ideally the best throughput will be achieved if your bedroom & hall are on the same circuit, if not the rate will be lower. How to tell if they are on the same circuit ? go to the fusebox and pull fuses and see if your bedroom & hall are on the same fuse.

Throughput drops with distance, depending on the state of your wiring and any introduced noise interference. Motors create interference, pumps, washing machines, mixies, fans, fridges, cell phone chargers etc. How to assess how much signal degradation is caused by this introduced noise is hard to tell and will take some trouble shooting if a problem arises, turning of devices one by one to see if there is a difference.

If you want to consider powerline its best to get a demo in your house where if you get your desired 30-40mbs (or better) throughput that you buy the device otherwise do you feel like gambling with Rs.5-6k

 

[blr_p]

My vote for Asus DSL 55U review here http://www.techenclave.com/community/threads/asus-dsl-n55u.147390/

Fortunately the N55U uses the same 2.4Ghz radio chip as the N56U and Belkin N750. So a comparison can be made.

Whether the stock 2dBi N55U's external antennas offer better range than internal ones is an open question. However there is the option to upgrade to 9dbi and cross one more wall.

In your review you claim...4GB file through 6-8 walls. Are these 6 inch walls or 11 inch ones ?

(6-8) 6 inch walls is equivalent to (3-4) 11 inch walls. Would guesstimate your throughput was 20-30Mbs approx what a a good N150 will give. Did you ever measure it ?

So what wifi client were you using to get this performance, a laptop with an intel wifi chip or other.

Give details.

 

[blr_p]

Here is a 3rd contingency for 'a bridge too far'

The red is an ethernet cable along the skirting of your hall and the little box is a shelf for the bridge. I take it the distance B might be the same to your existing router as A in my previous post but it will bring tv & PS3 closer to the d-link. Is a shelf in the hall along with the wiring feasible ?

Course if you move your d-link to the top of your bedroom door, would need 3 cables to skirt the walls in your room, dsl ,power & ethernet to the d-link. Then the distance between bridge & d-link is <20 feet which should give you the best signal possible for N300

What you need to do is a file transfer test with one of your laptops at a distance of 20 feet + 1 wall from the d-link. What is the best transfer rate (Mbs) you get ?

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

Err if he's reluctant to build a shelf in his desktop room, why would he build one in the living room

 

[blr_p]

Nobody can guarantee what he wants will work, If so then what are the options AFTER he buys something ?

You don't need a mason to install a shelf. He seems to think one is required because of a lack of a plug point. Failing which something like this works too. No cables have to be dangling, they can put in casing placed along the intersections of walls.