Would you shift out of India if you had an option ?
- Thread starter raksrules
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raksrules
Elite
Not entirely true (although true in my case
), in India i feel even the most basic needs have increased in prices so much and the cascading effect is what is more worrying. Petrol and Diesel price increases due to which the vegetable vendors increase prices citing fuel costs. My company increased bus fares only because fuel price increase. In such cases even if you are directly not consuming fuel (vehicle etc) it still affects you drastically. Also living better is not necessarily associated with have huge pay scales (although it does help) but at least being able to buy things we need and services we want at reasonable price and still having ability to save.
Opting out for a better pay is the least of my worries. I am content with what I am being offered right now (steady promotions and good appreciations from the seniors - I can't ask for more!) and wouldn't bother comparing it with how the other companies are paying their employees. Between the IT and the core industries, there is bound to be a huge difference anyway. I am saving whatever I can from the monthly paychecks and yet left with some for my expenditures.
Opting out for the sake of peace of mind and happiness, most definitely! Plus, if I would ever consider opting out (which I will after 3~4 years from now) I'd consider taking my parents along with me - dad is retired anyway although he still continues to work for a private organisation and mum has an year more before she retires. Stay in separate apartments but close to each other - this way at least I'd get all the privacy I want plus I could keep an eye on them at all times. I am thinking of Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai and the likes - essentially a place which has advanced shipyards and ship-repair facilities. US is out of question.
Opting out for the sake of peace of mind and happiness, most definitely! Plus, if I would ever consider opting out (which I will after 3~4 years from now) I'd consider taking my parents along with me - dad is retired anyway although he still continues to work for a private organisation and mum has an year more before she retires. Stay in separate apartments but close to each other - this way at least I'd get all the privacy I want plus I could keep an eye on them at all times. I am thinking of Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai and the likes - essentially a place which has advanced shipyards and ship-repair facilities. US is out of question.
raksrules
Elite
@Gannu
Your choice of countries is obviously because of your profession that involves ships and vessels, right ?
Also for me to better pay scale is last because as it is you do get a better pay scale because of the economy of that country (assuming it is better than India) but yes peace of mind and ability to give time to your family is definitely a plus.
Your choice of countries is obviously because of your profession that involves ships and vessels, right ?
Also for me to better pay scale is last because as it is you do get a better pay scale because of the economy of that country (assuming it is better than India) but yes peace of mind and ability to give time to your family is definitely a plus.
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Yes. In most cases, they are all developed countries - Singapore, China, Hong Kong, S. Korea, The Netherlands, Finland, Qatar, UAE etc.
Basic corruption is not the primary reason I would want to leave India. And it is not just the large population which is resulting in India to what it is. Most of our behavioral aspects are embedded in our culture and frankly speaking: I hate them. Call me different or weird, but that is it. I am a medium class citizen here, and nor am I striving to move up the ranks, but I am not corrupt. Why would you map such an incorrect logic for people here. Have you actually worked in India as a professional. Not hitting out at you, but questioning you, cause that statement really does not make sense. Am I a Saint, no, but I am not a corrupt government officer, or i.e.; I do not exploit the position I am in, directly or indirectly. How can high population be an answer for lack of empathy. Indian's are selfish and only care for the world around them, not even their families. And this is inculcated within us since birth. I have it too...! Humans are not valued as life, or fellow humans, people just move on. I have been to crowded places in Singapore and America (NA); I did not see people pushing and shoving and being downright 'mean' to each other. Not even starting the way women are treated, cause we all know the answer to that...! Cheating, dishonesty, unprofessional behavior, thug mentality, crass ideas, non-respect of privacy are all our inherent attributes, sadly. As an individual, one is bound to reach a catharsis; and feel diminutive and ostracized. We are doing this to each other, day-in-day-out. Our society, internally is hemorrhaging itself, without even realizing this.
Anyways, the way India is operating right now, how long you feel it can sustain this. Specially regarding governance and planning. We are still growing at ~6.7% and opportunities are better than they were before. But I personally feel, as more money comes into India, the situation will aggravate for the worse. Cause there has not been any self-correction in our society and mechanisms. India is just a huge market, where companies see they can sell, but our HID and various soft metrics are still sad, if not pathetic.
You really think US will hit 1B so fast, and they are not planning for positive cycles in population growth..? Did we..? Okay, we were a young nation and the explosion hit us hard, but the comparison is incorrect. We could not even plan a sports event which we knew about 5-6 years in advance, what you expect from us...? [Do note I am also taking onus for all this, since I live here]. Doubt the US can become a 3rd world nation. I have been to NYC, and frankly, it is still better than any of our cities. Of course I did not go into The Projects, or Bronx, but went as far up as Queens too, and the main commercial areas. Seems fine to me. Of course your experience is deeper, you have been abroad for 5 years.
The Nordic/Scandinavian countries would be a good place to go to. Just that the cold will be a bi***; and for work a third language might need to be learned (could be wrong). But they are nice places, and well run countries. Irreligious too.
Zinc
Adept
I definitely agree with you.
I have felt and experienced the exact same feelings while in countries like Australia, UK, France and some other European nations and not to mention US.
I don't know why but along with the locals the Indians already living there also have a sense of superiority over the newcomers.
I remember talking to some Indian guys in Hull, UK and they were talking to me like I was some destitute or lowbred although after talking to them I realized that I was definitely more educated and refined than those louts.
And once in France, I was asked by a Frenchman: "What class are you from?"
I couldn't understand what he meant, so he said that in India there are only two social classes, the super rich and the super poor.
He added sarcastically that they don't have such social disparities in France.
I tried arguing with him but there was no real point explaining him.
I also understand that these might be just isolated incidents and after initial problems and periods of trying to blend in one might get the peace of mind in a foreign land.
Notice the might.
sharktale1212
Skilled
You reminded me of two things I have heard(never been outside): a. In India when you take a leave for something other than sickness/existing family emergency(being the highlight word) it's considered nothing short of treachery. In US, a person can easily say he needs to watch his son's baseball game and no one questions him.
b. Outside work is part of life, In India it is life. Maybe its due to struggle people go through to make even the bare minimum.
Edit: 500th post yay!
That is spot on. They are very reserved people (see the official immigration site of most of these countries; I can confirm for Denmark). They know excellent English, but they still prefer talking in their respective languages. Also, for work of any kind, knowing their language is a must since all internal communication is mostly in their language.
Apart from the difficulties, super high standard of living. I can only imagine how it must be. Even reading about it makes my jaw drop.
Zinc
Adept
Very wise choice of nations, I must say.
: a. In India when you take a leave for something other than sickness/existing family emergency(being the highlight word) it's considered nothing short of treachery. In US, a person can easily say he needs to watch his son's baseball game and no one questions him.
Edit: 500th post yay!
This! This is the only part which I absolutely desist about working here. For taking a leave for 4 days at my new job here, I had to come up with all kinds of reasons. I was soooooo pissed off. Now that I have established myself in the company (sort of), I am not going to explain anything ever again. The company is giving me leave and I am going to utilise it. ALL OF IT. Take a hike if you don't understand or don't like it.
Nah, that might be generalising it a bit. It's more or less the same case there. People making minimum wage have lots of horror stories to tell. They live in cramped, stinking apartments or broken (literally) homes. The employers exploit them badly. Keep in mind the high costs of healthcare and in some cases, the minimum wage employees don't even get medical insurance.
Even there, there are people who spend 10-12 hours at work everyday. But, I can say that they take their holidays very seriously. No mails, no office work. I wish it was the same in India.
Somehow I've never faced this problem here! One of the many reasons I'd want to stick with my present organisation.
I think I must have taken at least a dozen offs from work, stating I need to play/complete a video game (mostly exclusives) and my boss has never denied. Not once! But yes, he always ensured that I left after all the pending work was completed. Sometimes I may have to work for additional hours on holidays and Sundays but I am cool with that.
In fact, the next working day sometimes he used to follow up asking 'did you finally manage to complete that game?!'. He's in his late 30s so he probably understands all these. Things might be changing for good. When I am the boss (well I am sort of now, I've a few juniors under me but they do not report to me as yet!), I would always permit them for some excuse such as this.
Hehe thanks. You would know better!
sharktale1212
Skilled
Nah, that might be generalising it a bit. It's more or less the same case there. People making minimum wage have lots of horror stories to tell. They live in cramped, stinking apartments or broken (literally) homes. The employers exploit them badly. Keep in mind the high costs of healthcare and in some cases, the minimum wage employees don't even get medical insurance.
Even there, there are people who spend 10-12 hours at work everyday. But, I can say that they take their holidays very seriously. No mails, no office work. I wish it was the same in India.
Sei, People work hard everywhere nothing specific to India. Its rather about how much part of our life is dedicated outside work. I think your holiday example is rather apt to the point I was trying to make.
I think it was aptly presented in a Docomo ad - "not getting away"
Haha, I salute your boss. Its very cool of him to consider gaming as an excuse
Its easy to say when you have earned considerable amount of money and you have good financial background , all the peeople saying want to stay in country is just because they parents has great financial backing to cover them up remove that & they would be first one to get out of the country.Even though i have good pay way better than my collegaues in India(sometimes i even beat my colleagues who are in onsite ) but due to human nature and its unpredictibility one always ask for more.
Though this is OT, but Indian managers/leadership personnel have still not learnt to de - link personal life from office. For them privacy is a no-issue and they openly ask why leaves have to be taken, and/or suggest alternates, but not take a leave. Why should a leave even be granted..? One should just avail it, when they want to, and have the responsibility and maturity to keep the machinery running pre and post leave. A lot of Indian companies, still operate on the semi-government model, where there is bureaucracy, and snobbery of upper echelons. They expect constant attendance and love to micro-manage. Due to MNCs coming into India, most of our office
Stole my words. In exactly the same situation. Been here almost 4 years now after moving in 2009.
Without doubt - in an instant.
With the exception of failed states abroad - within the realm of logical reasonable options of foreign countries - i would in an instant. Human life & rights are VALUED there, everything else like facilities/work options/conveniences aside.
With the exception of failed states abroad - within the realm of logical reasonable options of foreign countries - i would in an instant. Human life & rights are VALUED there, everything else like facilities/work options/conveniences aside.