52 replies to this topic

[ajish65]

Hi Guys,

I'm planning to upgrade my rig and my Final Config will prolly be:

Core i7 920 (bought today)
MSI X58 Pro-E (bought today)
1TB WD Caviar Green (bought today)
160 GB SATA HDD (cannibalised from my (very) old rig. :D)
GTX 275 (Haven't decided the brand yet, either Palit or MSI; they seem to be pretty cheap :D)
6 GB DDR3 1600 RAM
All this to be powered by Real Power M700 (thanks DarkNight :hap2:).

Now, when I bought the above stuff from SMC today I asked him for a 800Va UPS and he said I'd need at least a 1KVa UPS to power all that but a Microtek 1KVa will not suffice :S and that I should go with an APC 1 or preferably 1.5 KVa. My problem is that the APC one is way more expensive than the Microtek one. (And I want to keep the cost down as much as possible :D)

As I hadn't done proper research on the UPS part (I know, silly me; all my research time was spent on the other stuff :D) I didn't buy it today. Which brings me to my question; is what the SMC dude said true? Do I really need to go for a 1/1.5 KVa? And is APC really a must?

Also GPU and RAM recommendations are welcome, but secondary. :)

Thanks for your help and sorry for the long post! :)

[sam000]

^^Thought you should know this:ohyeah::

I have 1Kv APC ups BR1000-IN its almost 9 months old.APC replaced the ups 2 times under warranty:O.The second replacement happened just 2 days back now powechute is telling me this:

.

I think even this has gone kaput.I will have to call the apc guys tomorrow
lets see what happens or else i have to start a new thread here:P.

[ajish65]

Thanks for the info!

So, is no brand worth it's salt in the UPS market? :D

Edit: Btw what's ur config?

[Torch]

If you have a 700W PSU then it can potentially draw 700W from the UPS. Just like a PSU, even a UPS has an efficiency. UPS efficiency is very low compared to PSUs. They usually are rated at 65%.

However the real world value is much lower, around 50%. I also have a 1KVA APC BR1000IN which is 65% efficiency. Thus it should run 650W theoretically. The bloody thing never even ran 450W (according to their software's power reading). I had a 500W PSU at the time. And if the power went out it would immediately overload and cut off the power.

I then upgraded my computer and got a 750W PSU. It wouldn't even turn on on the so called 1KVA APC BR1000IN. Finally I bought an APC SUA1000UXI. Its 1KVA but 80% efficiency. It doesn't come with batteries, so you need to connect external LeadAcid batteries. It has a meter on the front which shows the load % and it seems to be true 800W capacity.



So for 700W PSU I think the minimum you need is the BR1500IN 1.5KVA. That one has built in batteries.

APC's home UPSs are apparently SHIT. They are made for the cheapskate Indian consumer who thinks he's very smart by getting a good deal just because the UPS casing looks better than their PC cabinet. Their inverters were such shit that it was removed from the market. Like I mentioned before, their 1KVA BR1000IN home use model didn't even provide 450W. However their server grade UPSs like the Smart-UPS series are excellent.

Another thing you must keep in mind is that 700W is exclusively for the PSU. You will probably be connecting monitor, speakers and other shit directly to the UPS as well. So you need to add wattage for those.

Expect to spend 10-15k for a UPS for your config. If your PSU is not fully loaded and isn't consuming 700W, then you can get away with a lower wattage 1KVA UPS for around 6-7K. But it will become a problem later when you start adding more components.

If a company like APC is capable of producing a piece of shit like the BR1000IN, then imagine the quality of other local brands like Microtek and Zebronics.

[Torch]

sam000 said:

^^Thought you should know this:ohyeah::

I have 1Kv APC ups BR1000-IN its almost 9 months old.APC replaced the ups 2 times under warranty:O.The second replacement happened just 2 days back now powechute is telling me this:

.

I think even this has gone kaput.I will have to call the apc guys tomorrow
lets see what happens or else i have to start a new thread here:P.

That can happen if your CPU is running at 100% for a long time. Like during Prime95 or OCCT runs. The USB communication fails.

[rajndra]

Also you need to check whether the UPS has cold-start capability. APC does not have it but their website lists it. I had a APC BackUPS 800RS (800VA) and it didn't have.

My current HP Premium 800 UPS has it.

There is a excellent website for choosing an UPS/Inverter. The link is : The Home UPS/Inverter Buying Guide — iLog

[Torch]

The BR1000IN supports cold start. Actually I've never seen a UPS that doesn't support cold start. (Maybe local UPS are so bad they don't know that they should prevent cold start on low capacity batteries?). Smart-UPS 1000VA also supports cold start. But you have do press the button once till it beeps once, then release and hold for 4 seconds or some crap. Otherwise once you shutdown during a power failure it won't start again by simply pressing the button. On some other APC models you have to press the Test button till it LONG beeps, then you must release the button DURING the beep sound to power on. If you hold it for too long it won't turn on. Cold start is very bad for the batteries thats why they have these complicated procedures.

[ajish65]

Thanks Torch and rajndra for your responses! What the heck's a "cold start"?

[Torch]

To turn on when there is no power.

[sam000]

WOAH I did not know APC back up ups are CRAP.And they do not even provide 450W:fear:.But I paid 7000 Bucks for this CRAP:bangin:.
My config:

E2180@3.0GHZ.

Abit IP35-E.

3GB Transcend value ram 800MHZ DDR2.

500GB Seagate HDD.

Corsair 450VX.

17” Samaung CRT.(connected to ups)

MSI 4850 OC.

Samsuns 22X dvr WRITER.

Altec lansing VS4121(connected to ups)

G5 laser mouse.

Logitech ordinary keyboard.

With all this connected powerchute is telling me this:



Am I drawing only this much power from the ups:huh:.

The first apc ups was replaced under warranty cause it would go into overload and crash my pc.It would not happen everyday it would work just fine for weeks then suddenly the red overload light would come and my pc will crash.Then one day the orange Replace battery light went on.so apc guys replaced the ups under warranty.

The second APC ups worked for 2 months without any problem then it too went into overload and crashed my pc.

The third replacement is telling me the above mentioned Fault :eek:.

Torch cpu was not running @ 100% it was like 2-3% all the overload episode happened when the pc was just downloading doing nothing else I checked.Thank you for the gyan :goodjob:.

[Torch]

My dad's pc is an E8400 @ 3.0 GHz on an Intel DG33 board. Other components are basic. Its running on the BR1000IN and the software shows only 135W load on his PC.

[ajish65]

Anybody using/heard of Powercom UPSs? Their stuff seems to be much cheaper than the APC and from what little I could find online, the quality ain't bad either. Words of wisdom; anyone?

Thanks! :)

EDIT: Forget it. Found some more (in fact a lot more) not so good stuff about them. My bad; should have dug a little deeper before posting the query. :D

[luster]

Torch said:

I then upgraded my computer and got a 750W PSU. It wouldn't even turn on on the so called 1KVA APC BR1000IN. Finally I bought an APC SUA1000UXI. Its 1KVA but 80% efficiency. It doesn't come with batteries, so you need to connect external LeadAcid batteries. It has a meter on the front which shows the load % and it seems to be true 800W capacity.

hi torch ,is APC SUA1000UXI 800w or 670w?.can you please check the back panel of the ups? or else where is it showing 800w,like in powerchute software?

[tvarad]

Torch said:

....

I then upgraded my computer and got a 750W PSU. It wouldn't even turn on on the so called 1KVA APC BR1000IN. Finally I bought an APC SUA1000UXI. Its 1KVA but 80% efficiency. It doesn't come with batteries, so you need to connect external LeadAcid batteries. It has a meter on the front which shows the load % and it seems to be true 800W capacity.

...

Does the SUA1000UXI use a APC proprietary battery connector? If so, do they provide the battery cables with regular lugs on the other end to connect the batteries? Can you explain this a little bit?

Thanks.

[SumitB]

@Torch: Can you please tell us how much backup you get with that UPS setup? Also, please let us know how much did it cost you.

[Torch]

luster said:

hi torch ,is APC SUA1000UXI 800w or 670w?.can you please check the back panel of the ups? or else where is it showing 800w,like in powerchute software?

The SUA1000UXI is 800W. It doesn't come with batteries at all. There is no room inside the UPS front panel to put batteries either as the transformer is much bigger than the other models with the same casing (The batteries are user replaceable by opening the front panel). Actually on my particular UPS the backplate says 670W but I called the APC India manager and he assured me that it is indeed 800W on the SUA1000UXI and they were using the same printed backplate for both the models as the casing is the same. I can confirm that it is actually 800W because it shows only 38% UPS load for my PC which is around 300W idle. The UPS has LEDs on the front that show the load and it shows only 2 out of 5 bars for 300W load.

According to their website it has a proprietary APC battery connector to connect to their official overpriced batteries, but when I bought it over here, they gave a long cable with lugs to connect to your own batteries. The red wire has a fuse box in the middle with a replaceable 100A fuse. They also gave a high quality 50A fuse to put in series between the two batteries for safety.

The SUA1000I however is only 670W and it comes with a small battery built in. It is also meant to be connected to external batteries for extended run time.

The Smart-UPS series software is a web interface similar to a modem/router. Thus you can access it from anywhere to configure or monitor the UPS. You can remotely shutdown the computer and turn off the UPS. You can set it to turn on after a predefined time, etc.

Both these UPSs require 24 volts, hence you'll need to attach two batteries in series. You can attach more pairs of batteries in parallel.

When buying batteries you need to look at the rating according to how long you expect the UPS to run. Most batteries are rated for a 10 hour discharge rate. So a 150AH battery rated for C10 (10 hours) will probably only give 100AH if you discharge it in 5 hours. The faster you discharge, more energy is wasted.

After searching for several weeks, I found the BEST battery for Inverter/UPS to be Okaya. AFAIK no other company makes such thick lead plates in the batteries for long life.

The SUA1000UXI (800W) was around Rs.13800. The two batteries were Rs.15600. The batteries are 150AH at C10. It gives me around 3:30 to 4 hours before shutting down which means the batteries are providing only around 90AH for a 4 hour discharge. Another thing is that the battery meter is completely misleading. It drops down to 65% VERY FAST and shows only 2:30 hours run time remaining, but after that the value reduces very slowly and finally gives a total of 3:30 to 4 hours run time.

[Harpy.eagle]

+1 to all using UPS. Please post config, UPS model and actual backup you get under normal usage and or benching

I am also looking forward to getting an UPS. Expected backup is around 2hrs for following config.

E8200 + G31M ES2L + 4GB XMS2 Ram + WD 640AAKS + Dell S2409W + Corsair TX 750W + Dataone MT841 modem/router.

SumitB said:

@Torch: Can you please tell us how much backup you get with that UPS setup? Also, please let us know how much did it cost you.

[Torch]

Harpy.eagle said:

+1 to all using UPS. Please post config, UPS model and actual backup you get under normal usage and or benching

I am also looking forward to getting an UPS. Expected backup is around 2hrs for following config.

E8200 + G31M ES2L + 4GB XMS2 Ram + WD 640AAKS + Dell S2409W + Corsair TX 750W + Dataone MT841 modem/router.

You've got a TX750W, so If you want to provide for full PSU load you'll need something like the UPS I have. You can buy 100AH batteries if you want 2 hours run time.

[prandi]

atleast 1.5kva is wat u need,,,iinw 1kva can handle 600w system

[Torch]

prandi said:

atleast 1.5kva is wat u need,,,iinw 1kva can handle 600w system

Depends on the USP efficiency, but yes almost all 1KVA UPS give 600W unless otherwise stated.