Now lets see the 1.5 TONNERS






1.5 TONNER Ranking After 5yrs use (Lower the Total cost, better the rank)






1.5 TONNER Ranking After 10yrs use (Lower the Total cost, better the rank)




This Daikin model is for ppl with more money than sense!



Little more separation here between 1st,2nd & 11th. What's surprising is comparing the CP's, shows not only is it cheaper to buy them but it also works out cheaper to the tune of nearly 10k over their lifetimes!



Windows models are competitive compared to the splits but remember they are 50+dB's of noise (ie as loud as a normal conversation)!!



As luck would have it today i came across an ad in my local paper. LG's claims to energy savings are beyond my comprehension given that every model in there does *not* have any inverter tech. And to claim the savings LG did one wonders what they used to compare their models with. Speaking of inverters check this out, wonder how much for ?



One thing to keep in mind is that most of the BEE labels you see on models are out of date if you look at them carefully it says 2007, in 2008 the star ratings drop one star and again do so in 2010 for the same EER.

Very good...helpful. Repped!

one issue with the calculation though is that the power consumption figure happening over a period of 5 years is added in bulk to the cost price which is happening today...



Ideally, the Power consumption numbers should be converted to their present values ...To add to it, you have also added inflation values to tge Powe consumption numbers that will skew the numbers even more



If you adjust the power consumption costs to the Present value (at even a anominal rate of say 8%), the tables may change completely





In other words, A spending of 15K to start with and a spending of 15K in the 5th year on electricity bill cannot be added directly as 15K 5 years from now isn't exactly going to be worth what 15K is today

They used an earlier version of the 1ton table which i've since updated to account for the 5yr replacement costs.



It does *not* make sense to replace every 5 yrs...as the table shows for either 1 or 1.5 tonners.



Hope that's what you were getting at

Samsung and General do not figure in the list. Wonder why?

General does not have any models in the BEE list,

Hmm, seems they have updated their list since i did the tables, notice more Onida's & Videocon in there as well!



Will update later when i have time.



Samsung for some reason does not seem very popular on this board, tho it does have some interesting models ie splits on offer.

General/Hitachi/Daikin.... I guess you also pay more for better quality & Less noise...



Also we should take a note of cost of servicing.... Some more than others....

Until i see better stuff than what Daikin have in BEE i'll continue not to be impressed

Where are the 5-star models is what i want to know.



About servicing.. windows models have one type of servicing & splits another,



Costs within a type should be similar then right ?



So they would cancel out when comparing between models of the same type.



From my reading around i think its more important that they get serviced right as efficiency will depend a lot on it.

superczar meant this Present value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Excellent work man..



Cant rep since I've to spread some..

superczar meant this Present value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.







So if you take 100 rupees 1 year from now at 5% inflation rate, it's worth 95 today. There's an Excel function that you can use, PV. Info: Simplifying-the-PV-NPV-and-FV-Functions-of-Excel-2003.

Ahh, little clearer now and thx for the links



So..if i get this right, you prefer to see present values,



Is that as simple as taking the 5 (& 10) yr power cost and applying the formula ?



eg for the 1 tonner, voltas win plus 1T (first item in the 1 tonner table)






S0 the 5yr TC Pv value is Rs.45,590 instead of Rs.59,713 previously



and lifetime Pv TC is Rs.67,926 instead of Rs.1,28,684 previously.



I have taken 8% inflation(?) here and compounded anually for 5 yrs & 10 yrs respectively..and therfore only need to add a cpl of lines for PVPCI & PvPC in the tables.



Did i do this right ?



Another way using the excel formula =PV(rate,nper,pmt,[fv],[type])



Monthly payment is Rs.1,179 for 6 months/yr over 5 years at inflation of 8%.






and presumably the same for 10 yrs.



The 5yr TC using this method is now Rs.55,451 compared to the previous method that gave Rs.45,590.



If i still got it wrong, pls give the *correct* formula and where to use it

Pls put up the XLS as an attachment. You're on the right track but there are minor tweaks required.



eg. 2nd calculation you've messed up on the number of periods PV(8%/12,5x6,MC) should be PV(8/12, 5x12, MC) or just PV(8, 5, 12xMC). Also, need to look at the PCI factor's calculation. You've added 25% of the PV, which doesn't seem right. What was your assumption regarding PCI? 25% increase by year 5? or 25% increase annually?



ps. prices updated on CI.

Originally Posted by m4w

Pls put up the XLS as an attachment. You're on the right track but there are minor tweaks required.

Did not make any changes to the spreadsheet until i get this nailed down. All the calcs in my previous post are as is and were done manually.

Originally Posted by m4w

eg. 2nd calculation you've messed up on the number of periods PV(8%/12,5x6,MC) should be PV(8/12, 5x12, MC) or just PV(8, 5, 12xMC).

I used 6 to indicate 6 months @8 hrs/day to be the avg annual consumption. Now its quite likely you might only need to use an AC for 3 months of the yr but i bet you would be running it more than 6 hrs/day in that case



So i chose 6 for periods instead of 12. As you would not be making payments for the remainder of the yr.



Is it still wrong ?

Originally Posted by m4w

Also, need to look at the PCI factor's calculation. You've added 25% of the PV, which doesn't seem right. What was your assumption regarding PCI? 25% increase by year 5? or 25% increase annually?

Looking at past bills going back 10 yrs i noticed a jump of 50% on the avg. unit price within 5 yrs and a doubling in 8 going up to 120% by the 10 th yr.



Why did i pick 25% for PCI for 5 yrs ?



Just imagined it graphically



Think of a rectangle with a diagonal which then gives you two inner triangles. The triangles are identical and each occupies only half the area of the rectangle.



Therefore if price increases by 50% in 5 yrs then only take half of it to calculate the total increase over that period. Now that's an approximation and could possibly be bit more as the increases were discrete jumps. Stayed at one price for a few yrs, then suddenly jumped and cpl times again till the 10th yr. The triangle in the rectangle seemed like a good approximation to this.

Originally Posted by m4w

ps. prices updated on CI.

It's been suggested i use the CI prices but CI only offers those prices in Delhi, Bumbay and recently Bangalore.



What if you don't live in those cities ?



The CI prices in some cases offer sizable reductions over the MRP, so are CI's prices close enough nationally ?



It would appear they are working like a co-operative not too different to the way GO's work here and the price is maybe cheaper than you could get from outside their network.



I felt anyone could haggle Rs.500 off the MRP, course if you get more off then kudos.

Awesome job. Now can somebody advice on which 1.5 ton split a.c should I buy? I am thinking of the Onida SZ18GRL2 1.5T. What do you guys suggest?

I re-examined both your methods and I think you're fine using method 2 (the one that gives you a higher PV because of your treatment of power price increase). And yeah, since you're calculating monthly expenditure, the 6x5 periods is fine. BTW found this US AC TCO calculator here.



AFAIK CI prices are close to street prices (market operating prices) and are a better indicator of consumer pricing. If only there was a way to automate culling of prices from CI (free radical....you listening out there? .

Originally Posted by m4w

I re-examined both your methods and I think you're fine using method 2 (the one that gives you a higher PV because of your treatment of power price increase). And yeah, since you're calculating monthly expenditure, the 6x5 periods is fine. BTW found this US AC TCO calculator here.

Did some digging and found another (more recent) here by the same author.



Was looking at the formula used for calculating Lifetime costs, and the one used above is



=PV(Discount Rate@4%,9-yrs-lifetime,Annual Cost,,0)



For discount rate the following assumption is stated

A real discount rate of 4 percent is assumed, which is roughly equivalent to the nominal discount rate of 7 percent (4 percent real discount rate + 3 per cent inflation rate)

So is the 8% used earlier correct for India ?



Throwing the same values at both the spreadsheets reveals the same figure for lifetime costs so we have a winning formula here

Am still using 10-yrs for lifetime instead of 9



Admittedly its easier to take the annual cost (instead of months) and just use the yrs, 5 or 10 as periods (nper parameter in the excel formula) to work out with the discounted TC for those periods.



Looking at the spreadsheets, they have a mapping table correlating cooling hours with city & state, wonder if anything similar exists for India ?



So using the previous example






Strange thing here is the difference in PV between the two formula.



Why does using =PV(8%/12,5x6,MC) give Rs.31,961



whereas =PV(8%,5,AC) gives Rs.28,244



One is saying use monthly payments 30 times vs annual payment 5 times :S

Originally Posted by m4w

AFAIK CI prices are close to street prices (market operating prices) and are a better indicator of consumer pricing. If only there was a way to automate culling of prices from CI (free radical....you listening out there? .

Anyone else *not* from Delhi, Mumbai or Bangalore agree with this ?

Hmmm I think 8% is a tad bit high but who's to argue with recent economic trends. I say stick with it!



About the CI vs MRP argument, I'm sure no one ever pays MRP on ACs (or most durables) ever. MRP = indicative price. The MOP depends on a number of factors including channel promotions, channel rebates, landing price etc.



BTW guys checking out this thread, please vote and rep. Give blr_p the extra motivation to finish v2 of his TCO comparitive analysis.